More unfairness for males
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 Stirlingsays Online  10 Oct 17 5.21pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
"Unfairness"? Circumcision is a beneficial medical choice made by parents on behalf of their child; like vaccination. You seemed to be arguing that parents should not be allowed to make the choice to circumcise their sons, hence my question about vaccination. Why should parents be allowed to make the choice to vaccinate their children who may grow up to be rampant anti-vaxxers and hate that this was done to them against their wishes? Edited by Ray in Houston (10 Oct 2017 5.18pm) There is a proven case for vaccinations...Easily verified......The medical case for male circumcision is....at best controversial and in truth not proven. It shouldn't be performed on infants....outside of medical conditions. It's just another method for the American health system to make money from a religious and cultural myth. Also, the difference between a jab in the shoulder and lopping off the foreskin is significant. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Oct 2017 5.25pm)
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Ray in Houston  Houston 10 Oct 17 5.25pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
There is a proven case for vaccinations.....The medical case for male circumcision is....at best controversial and in truth not proven. It's just another method for the American health system to make money from a religious and cultural myth.
But let's not limit this to genitalia: should women be allowed to elect to have a perfectly healthy breast removed to avoid potential future disease?
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 10 Oct 17 5.27pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Also, the difference between a jab in the shoulder and lopping off the foreskin is significant. My BCG vaccination was f***ing painful, hurt for days afterwards, and left a scar on my arm that has never healed.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Oct 17 5.27pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
I do agree that performing the procedure without anesthetic should not be allowed but as a beneficial health choice for a child it remains a valid option. Most male circumcisions are not conducted for valid medical reasons though, and are the product of Abrahamic faith traditions. And it shouldn't be the right of a parent to decide whether their child is mutilated in the name of culture or faith. Where its applied following a diagnosis for medical reasons, yes, then it should be conducted, by a doctor with a genuine surgical consult. Also, on babies, the use of anaesthesia is generally not a good idea unless absolutely necessary.
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| Stirlingsays Online 10 Oct 17 5.28pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
My BCG vaccination was f***ing painful, hurt for days afterwards, and left a scar on my arm that has never healed.
You surely aren't being serious here?
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 10 Oct 17 5.31pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You surely aren't being serious here? Most definitely.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 10 Oct 17 5.32pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
My BCG vaccination was f***ing painful, hurt for days afterwards, and left a scar on my arm that has never healed. I've got a big BCG scar. Much slapping of upper arms that week at school. It hurt like a b****** for at least 2 weeks.
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| Stirlingsays Online 10 Oct 17 5.33pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
But let's not limit this to genitalia: should women be allowed to elect to have a perfectly healthy breast removed to avoid potential future disease? Perhaps for you it was, foreskins can be tight..so on and so forth...America has its cultural preference...you being an adult, this isn't even a debate. That's got nothing to do with infant male circumcision. No one should be cutting off healthy parts of infants. That's a decision for them as an adult. As for women and healthy breast removal......As an adult, that's between them and their doctor.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 10 Oct 17 5.36pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Most male circumcisions are not conducted for valid medical reasons though, and are the product of Abrahamic faith traditions. And it shouldn't be the right of a parent to decide whether their child is mutilated in the name of culture or faith. Where its applied following a diagnosis for medical reasons, yes, then it should be conducted, by a doctor with a genuine surgical consult. Also, on babies, the use of anaesthesia is generally not a good idea unless absolutely necessary. I agree completely with this, but we weren't debating the motivation and method of male circumcision; we were debating why it's allowed on males but not females. It's allowed on males because it has medical benefits. I'd be fully behind a ban on the process for purely religious reasons. I'd be fully behind a ban on religions, actually, not that either would be enforceable in practice.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Oct 17 5.37pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
My BCG vaccination was f***ing painful, hurt for days afterwards, and left a scar on my arm that has never healed. The effective eradication of TB is a valid medical reason - Especially given that antibiotic treatment of TB is difficult, and risks the production of resistant strains. Yes, the vaccine I had scarred me for life - but it was on the grounds of valid medical disease prevention. Circumcision doesn't really have much in the way of effective medical prevention - Although in transmission of HIV it seems to reduce infection rates (but not more than say wearing a condom). The direct preventative health benefits seem rather small, given that around 2/3rds of the world are not circumcised and untroubled by their foreskin.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Oct 17 5.41pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
I agree completely with this, but we weren't debating the motivation and method of male circumcision; we were debating why it's allowed on males but not females. It's allowed on males because it has medical benefits. I'd be fully behind a ban on the process for purely religious reasons. I'd be fully behind a ban on religions, actually, not that either would be enforceable in practice. Similar processes for surgical removal of parts of the female v***** and clitoris do occur as necessary surgical procedures - A old friend of mine had this done as part of a procedure to prevent the spread of cancer.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Oct 17 5.42pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
I've got a big BCG scar. Much slapping of upper arms that week at school. It hurt like a b****** for at least 2 weeks. Yep. Probably better than TB mind.
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