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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 23 Nov 17 8.52am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 For balance (and fairness), can you tell us how many of the roughly six million people who died in the UK during the Labour governments of 1997-2010, died as a result of government policy? That was because they were clearing up the mess the Tories left behind. ŠTheresa May
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 23 Nov 17 8.52am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

For balance (and fairness), can you tell us how many of the roughly six million people who died in the UK during the Labour governments of 1997-2010, died as a result of government policy?

That was because they were clearing up the mess the Tories left behind. ŠTheresa May

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hedgehog50 Croydon 23 Nov 17 9.05am
Originally posted by nickgusset That was because they were clearing up the mess the Tories left behind. ŠTheresa May So doesn't it follow that any deaths under a Tory government are due to the mess that the previous Labour government left behind? Indeed, it seems that all these deaths are caused by government in general then. Perhaps we should abolish government altogether and try a bit of anarchy, then the death rate would drop dramatically? Actually, less government is in general a good thing and would help in all sorts of areas. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 23 Nov 17 9.05am

Originally posted by nickgusset

That was because they were clearing up the mess the Tories left behind. ŠTheresa May

So doesn't it follow that any deaths under a Tory government are due to the mess that the previous Labour government left behind? Indeed, it seems that all these deaths are caused by government in general then. Perhaps we should abolish government altogether and try a bit of anarchy, then the death rate would drop dramatically? Actually, less government is in general a good thing and would help in all sorts of areas.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 23 Nov 17 9.10am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 For balance (and fairness), can you tell us how many of the roughly six million people who died in the UK during the Labour governments of 1997-2010, died as a result of government policy? As mortality rates were improving it would be the case that fewer people died than would otherwise have been expected thanks to government policy.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 23 Nov 17 9.10am

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Originally posted by hedgehog50

For balance (and fairness), can you tell us how many of the roughly six million people who died in the UK during the Labour governments of 1997-2010, died as a result of government policy?

As mortality rates were improving it would be the case that fewer people died than would otherwise have been expected thanks to government policy.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 23 Nov 17 9.21am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 So doesn't it follow that any deaths under a Tory government are due to the mess that the previous Labour government left behind? Indeed, it seems that all these deaths are caused by government in general then. Perhaps we should abolish government altogether and try a bit of anarchy, then the death rate would drop dramatically? Actually, less government is in general a good thing and would help in all sorts of areas. Whoooosh
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 23 Nov 17 9.21am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Whoooosh

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hedgehog50 Croydon 23 Nov 17 9.27am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle As mortality rates were improving it would be the case that fewer people died than would otherwise have been expected thanks to government policy. That's a big conclusion to jump to. You have analysed each death and the circumstances have you? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 23 Nov 17 9.27am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

As mortality rates were improving it would be the case that fewer people died than would otherwise have been expected thanks to government policy.

That's a big conclusion to jump to. You have analysed each death and the circumstances have you?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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danny choo choo Hayes 23 Nov 17 11.43am
Originally posted by johnfirewall I'm just going by quotes on here. Were they not part of the Unite Against Extremist? To be honest at lot of people on here keep talking about EDL which may be an unfair link and in fact the anti-racism sites also mention FLA in the same breath as the other groups. At the end of the day you're wasting you're time on here. Have a word with the whoever writes articles like this if the tenuous connections between FLA founders and actual far-right groups are misleading. [Link] These are the sort of people that fuel misinformation. Most on here are actually supportive. appologies mate i can see why you thought of the FLA as such, as sadly the stand up to rascism group who are a front for the disgraced socialist workers party are a far left extreme radical group who are going out of their way to demonise us, we have done nothing to give them any reason to call us a far right group and they are now saying we are sexist because of the "lads" name lol even though we have a ladies alliance! the Facts are- 2 marchs at least 50,000 in attendance only 1 arrest, people of different colours and creed in attendance plus the gurkas, a black man and fellow palace fan was a speaker,oh and an undercover itv reporter who was secretly filming for the "exposing the far right" documentary and low an behold in the 1 hour show the FLA didnt even get a mention not once! ive read these leaflets they've been handing out at football grounds around the country and anyone would think we was marching with burning crosses with white sheets over our heads! there is a march in Edinburgh on Saturday "the veterans against terroism" which the FLA are supporting as they marched with us in London and the local rag are reporting "far right marching in scotland"! all because of the fake news from stand up to rascism who incidently have the leader of CAGE Moazzam begg who said the isis terroist jihadi John was a good guy! oh and its event is headed by the one and only Diane abbott. this clearly shows they have there own agenda and are scared that the FLA will exspose them for what they are. i will put the link below. but you are right i probably am waisting my time on here but im hoping the many people who are on the fence get to here the truth about the FLA and the best way to find out is to join the group or even better come on the next march, you're more than welcome to send me a pm johnfirewall and i can add you to the group and you can make your own mind up. [Link]
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danny choo choo

Hayes 23 Nov 17 11.43am

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Originally posted by johnfirewall

I'm just going by quotes on here. Were they not part of the Unite Against Extremist?

To be honest at lot of people on here keep talking about EDL which may be an unfair link and in fact the anti-racism sites also mention FLA in the same breath as the other groups.

At the end of the day you're wasting you're time on here.

Have a word with the whoever writes articles like this if the tenuous connections between FLA founders and actual far-right groups are misleading.

[Link]

These are the sort of people that fuel misinformation. Most on here are actually supportive.

appologies mate i can see why you thought of the FLA as such, as sadly the stand up to rascism group who are a front for the disgraced socialist workers party are a far left extreme radical group who are going out of their way to demonise us, we have done nothing to give them any reason to call us a far right group and they are now saying we are sexist because of the "lads" name lol even though we have a ladies alliance!
the Facts are- 2 marchs at least 50,000 in attendance only 1 arrest, people of different colours and creed in attendance plus the gurkas, a black man and fellow palace fan was a speaker,oh and an undercover itv reporter who was secretly filming for the "exposing the far right" documentary and low an behold in the 1 hour show the FLA didnt even get a mention not once!
ive read these leaflets they've been handing out at football grounds around the country and anyone would think we was marching with burning crosses with white sheets over our heads!
there is a march in Edinburgh on Saturday "the veterans against terroism" which the FLA are supporting as they marched with us in London and the local rag are reporting "far right marching in scotland"! all because of the fake news from stand up to rascism who incidently have the leader of CAGE Moazzam begg who said the isis terroist jihadi John was a good guy!
oh and its event is headed by the one and only Diane abbott. this clearly shows they have there own agenda and are scared that the FLA will exspose them for what they are. i will put the link below.

but you are right i probably am waisting my time on here but im hoping the many people who are on the fence get to here the truth about the FLA and the best way to find out is to join the group or even better come on the next march, you're more than welcome to send me a pm johnfirewall and i can add you to the group and you can make your own mind up.

[Link]

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Kermit8 Hevon 23 Nov 17 11.59am
Keep the initials but change it to Fatwa Liberation Army and then me and my mates Salman and Larry are in. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 23 Nov 17 11.59am

Keep the initials but change it to Fatwa Liberation Army and then me and my mates Salman and Larry are in.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 23 Nov 17 12.19pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle As mortality rates were improving it would be the case that fewer people died than would otherwise have been expected thanks to government policy. Not this crap again. The variables are so numerous that it is impossible to know. Perhaps the NHS might have been under less pressure if Blair hadn't exercised the option to allow thousands of Eastern Europeans to come here. JAT
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Hrolf The Ganger

23 Nov 17 12.19pm

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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

As mortality rates were improving it would be the case that fewer people died than would otherwise have been expected thanks to government policy.

Not this crap again.

The variables are so numerous that it is impossible to know.
Perhaps the NHS might have been under less pressure if Blair hadn't exercised the option to allow thousands of Eastern Europeans to come here. JAT

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Park Road 25 Nov 17 9.27pm
[Link] Understanding the FLA good honest read
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Park Road

25 Nov 17 9.27pm

[Link]
Understanding the FLA good honest read

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 25 Nov 17 10.08pm
Originally posted by Park Road [Link] Understanding the FLA good honest read Some good points and some twaddle too. Right wing groups will try and ride the coat tails of the FLA. As long as the FLA get them to sling their hook then great. I felt the article played down the far right elements trying to be involved. I think it's worth having a look at the Facebook profiles of some of those who follow the FLA. They're certainly not anti racist like the FLA wishes to be seen as. Have a word with the leaders of the group and see if they can arrange a march alongside some anti terrorism Muslim groups. That would send the best message of not being defeated to IS
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 25 Nov 17 10.08pm

Originally posted by Park Road

[Link]
Understanding the FLA good honest read

Some good points and some twaddle too.

Right wing groups will try and ride the coat tails of the FLA. As long as the FLA get them to sling their hook then great.

I felt the article played down the far right elements trying to be involved.

I think it's worth having a look at the Facebook profiles of some of those who follow the FLA. They're certainly not anti racist like the FLA wishes to be seen as.

Have a word with the leaders of the group and see if they can arrange a march alongside some anti terrorism Muslim groups. That would send the best message of not being defeated to IS

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Hrolf The Ganger 25 Nov 17 10.56pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Some good points and some twaddle too. Right wing groups will try and ride the coat tails of the FLA. As long as the FLA get them to sling their hook then great. I felt the article played down the far right elements trying to be involved. I think it's worth having a look at the Facebook profiles of some of those who follow the FLA. They're certainly not anti racist like the FLA wishes to be seen as. Have a word with the leaders of the group and see if they can arrange a march alongside some anti terrorism Muslim groups. That would send the best message of not being defeated to IS It's not unusual to play it down when you have undesirables in your midst Look at the Labour Party. I'm sure they are very keen to play down just how many communists are among their ranks. No sensible person would vote for them if they knew. It would be catastrophic if they got into government. With the FLA, they are just a protest group and only have their reputation to protect. They will never win any seats at an election or be able to make policy affecting millions.
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Hrolf The Ganger

25 Nov 17 10.56pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Some good points and some twaddle too.

Right wing groups will try and ride the coat tails of the FLA. As long as the FLA get them to sling their hook then great.

I felt the article played down the far right elements trying to be involved.

I think it's worth having a look at the Facebook profiles of some of those who follow the FLA. They're certainly not anti racist like the FLA wishes to be seen as.

Have a word with the leaders of the group and see if they can arrange a march alongside some anti terrorism Muslim groups. That would send the best message of not being defeated to IS

It's not unusual to play it down when you have undesirables in your midst
Look at the Labour Party. I'm sure they are very keen to play down just how many communists are among their ranks. No sensible person would vote for them if they knew. It would be catastrophic if they got into government.
With the FLA, they are just a protest group and only have their reputation to protect. They will never win any seats at an election or be able to make policy affecting millions.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 26 Nov 17 12.34am
Originally posted by Park Road [Link] Understanding the FLA good honest read for balance... Edinburgh today. [Link] The FLAs failure was the result of consistent efforts by Stand Up To Racism (SUTR) to explain the dangers of racist division to football fans, and to build maximum anti-racist unity in advance of 25 November. SUTR leafletted matches over several weeks and was well received. A unity statement was issued and backed by the STUC plus all the major trade unions, political, football and community organisations. On the day the SUTR unity rally had national and local banners from EIS and Unison, speeches from the SNP, Labour and Green parties, the Muslim Womens Association and many more. Statements of support were read out from the newly elected Scottish Labour leader, Richard Leonard, SNP MPs and Jews for Peace. While the slogans of the Stand up to Racism rally focussed on unity, VAT and FLA claims not to be racist or extremist were belied by their speeches which focussed exclusively on attacking Islam. The FLA has claimed to be drawing a clear line on far right involvement in its activities. But that pretence was dropped with the speakers at the Edinburgh rally. These included Ex English Democrat candidate and far right activist Toni Bugle, Bill Weir who spoke on an English Defence League demo a year ago, and Mo Fyaz, an associate of Tommy Robinson.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 26 Nov 17 12.34am

Originally posted by Park Road

[Link]
Understanding the FLA good honest read

for balance... Edinburgh today.

[Link]

The FLAs failure was the result of consistent efforts by Stand Up To Racism (SUTR) to explain the dangers of racist division to football fans, and to build maximum anti-racist unity in advance of 25 November.

SUTR leafletted matches over several weeks and was well received.

A unity statement was issued and backed by the STUC plus all the major trade unions, political, football and community organisations.

On the day the SUTR unity rally had national and local banners from EIS and Unison, speeches from the SNP, Labour and Green parties, the Muslim Womens Association and many more.

Statements of support were read out from the newly elected Scottish Labour leader, Richard Leonard, SNP MPs and Jews for Peace.

While the slogans of the Stand up to Racism rally focussed on unity, VAT and FLA claims not to be racist or extremist were belied by their speeches which focussed exclusively on attacking Islam.

The FLA has claimed to be drawing a clear line on far right involvement in its activities. But that pretence was dropped with the speakers at the Edinburgh rally. These included Ex English Democrat candidate and far right activist Toni Bugle, Bill Weir who spoke on an English Defence League demo a year ago, and Mo Fyaz, an associate of Tommy Robinson.

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