The Big Club Bias and Loftus-Cheek

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leifandersonshair Newport 03 Nov 17 5.32pm
Does anyone think that, if Loftus-Cheek had played exactly the same this season but was a Palace player, not a Chelsea player on loan at Palace, he would still be in the England squad? Not a chance
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leifandersonshair

Newport 03 Nov 17 5.32pm

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Does anyone think that, if Loftus-Cheek had played exactly the same this season but was a Palace player, not a Chelsea player on loan at Palace, he would still be in the England squad? Not a chance

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Dan1994 Wallington 03 Nov 17 5.48pm
Originally posted by Painter Zaha cannot now be selected for England, his choice Jones has played in a defence that have conceded 4 goals, Dann 21 goals. Jones has raised his game this year. Gomez is more versatile, but close shout. Not so long ago Jake Livermore was in the team, so there is no big club bias, unless you class boring WBA as a big team. Playing for England is no longer important to many players, England have to play to a system as dictated by Dan Ashworth. None of those examples were in reference to the current squad selection, though. [Link]
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Dan1994

Wallington 03 Nov 17 5.48pm

Originally posted by Painter

Zaha cannot now be selected for England, his choice
Jones has played in a defence that have conceded 4 goals, Dann 21 goals. Jones has raised his game this year.
Gomez is more versatile, but close shout.
Not so long ago Jake Livermore was in the team, so there is no big club bias, unless you class boring WBA as a big team.
Playing for England is no longer important to many players, England have to play to a system as dictated by Dan Ashworth.

None of those examples were in reference to the current squad selection, though.

[Link]

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 03 Nov 17 5.51pm
Originally posted by Dan1994 None of those examples were in reference to the current squad selection, though. What about Gomez v Lascelles ?
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 03 Nov 17 5.51pm

Originally posted by Dan1994

None of those examples were in reference to the current squad selection, though.

What about Gomez v Lascelles ?

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Dan1994 Wallington 03 Nov 17 5.55pm
Originally posted by Willo What about Gomez v Lascelles ? I didnt realise that was highlighted tbh. But the only two I was referring to in this squad selection was Gomez over Lascelles and Lingard over Townsend Edited by Dan1994 (03 Nov 2017 5.56pm) [Link]
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Dan1994

Wallington 03 Nov 17 5.55pm

Originally posted by Willo

What about Gomez v Lascelles ?

I didnt realise that was highlighted tbh. But the only two I was referring to in this squad selection was Gomez over Lascelles and Lingard over Townsend

Edited by Dan1994 (03 Nov 2017 5.56pm)

[Link]

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Casual Orpington 03 Nov 17 6.33pm
Originally posted by Dan1994 So explain: Lingard over Zaha? Phil Jones over Dann? Lingard over Townsend this time round? Gomez over Lascelles? How long it took Defoe to get a look in? Jack Wilshere and Sturridge used to seemingly always getting in and amongst the squad. How Drinkwater wasn't in the squad the season they won the league. I think you are right, you'll always get a higher percentage of players from big clubs, but there is a clear bias. Of the current selected squad: 6 (not including loans) come from outside the top 6. Half of them are 'keepers (Joe Hart, Butland and Pickford), baring in mind that no top 6 team has an English goalkeeper. The other three are Vardy, Maguire and Bertrand. Again, Vardy is an established forward and prolific last couple seasons and this, we have piss all left backs and Maguire. Zaha can�t play for England . I don�t think Dann is one of our best 2 center backs. When you look that Tottenham had 5 Englishmen that beat Madrid and Man City had 3 that won away in Italy. Add to that the Englishmen that are at the other top 6 clubs, plus the decent ones scattered around the other teams, ours will struggle to get a call up. Apart from Townsend, if they named 2 England squads, I doubt we�d have any of ours in either.
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Casual

Orpington 03 Nov 17 6.33pm

Originally posted by Dan1994

So explain:
Lingard over Zaha?
Phil Jones over Dann?
Lingard over Townsend this time round?
Gomez over Lascelles?
How long it took Defoe to get a look in?
Jack Wilshere and Sturridge used to seemingly always getting in and amongst the squad.
How Drinkwater wasn't in the squad the season they won the league.

I think you are right, you'll always get a higher percentage of players from big clubs, but there is a clear bias.

Of the current selected squad:
6 (not including loans) come from outside the top 6. Half of them are 'keepers (Joe Hart, Butland and Pickford), baring in mind that no top 6 team has an English goalkeeper. The other three are Vardy, Maguire and Bertrand. Again, Vardy is an established forward and prolific last couple seasons and this, we have piss all left backs and Maguire.

Zaha can�t play for England . I don�t think Dann is one of our best 2 center backs.
When you look that Tottenham had 5 Englishmen that beat Madrid and Man City had 3 that won away in Italy. Add to that the Englishmen that are at the other top 6 clubs, plus the decent ones scattered around the other teams, ours will struggle to get a call up.
Apart from Townsend, if they named 2 England squads, I doubt we�d have any of ours in either.

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 03 Nov 17 6.45pm
Originally posted by Dan1994 So explain: Lingard over Zaha? Phil Jones over Dann? Lingard over Townsend this time round? Gomez over Lascelles? How long it took Defoe to get a look in? Jack Wilshere and Sturridge used to seemingly always getting in and amongst the squad. How Drinkwater wasn't in the squad the season they won the league. I think you are right, you'll always get a higher percentage of players from big clubs, but there is a clear bias. Of the current selected squad: 6 (not including loans) come from outside the top 6. Half of them are 'keepers (Joe Hart, Butland and Pickford), baring in mind that no top 6 team has an English goalkeeper. The other three are Vardy, Maguire and Bertrand. Again, Vardy is an established forward and prolific last couple seasons and this, we have piss all left backs and Maguire. I know its one of the big mysteries in football - why Joel Ward is not starting for England "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 03 Nov 17 6.45pm

Originally posted by Dan1994

I think you are right, you'll always get a higher percentage of players from big clubs, but there is a clear bias.

I know its one of the big mysteries in football - why Joel Ward is not starting for England

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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Painter Online Croydon 03 Nov 17 6.45pm
Originally posted by Dan1994 None of those examples were in reference to the current squad selection, though. So what�s your point then?
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Painter Online

Croydon 03 Nov 17 6.45pm

Originally posted by Dan1994

None of those examples were in reference to the current squad selection, though.

So what�s your point then?

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 03 Nov 17 6.47pm
Originally posted by Painter So what�s your point then? Was there a point then? "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 03 Nov 17 6.47pm

Originally posted by Painter

So what�s your point then?

Was there a point then?

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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dorking 03 Nov 17 6.59pm
Originally posted by leifandersonshair Does anyone think that, if Loftus-Cheek had played exactly the same this season but was a Palace player, not a Chelsea player on loan at Palace, he would still be in the England squad? Not a chance Agree
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dorking

03 Nov 17 6.59pm

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

Does anyone think that, if Loftus-Cheek had played exactly the same this season but was a Palace player, not a Chelsea player on loan at Palace, he would still be in the England squad? Not a chance

Agree

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Dan1994 Wallington 03 Nov 17 9.51pm
The point was that there is a big club England bias. All those examples were meant to demonstrate that. I never said those were for this squad. Zaha pre-Ivory Coast call up should've been in the squad over Jesse Lingard. Dann at his peak (or any other defender) should have had a shout over Phil Jones who was s***e then. Townsend this time round has been better than some of the players in the squad. It took Defoe ages to get a shout in the England squad, despite bagging loads of goals. Jack Wilshere and Dan Sturridge used to get in the squad despite being injured the majority of the time. Similar to Defoe, Drinkwater should've got more of a look in. Didn't make the final cut of the Euros, despite playing for a team top of the league in the form of his life. Just because they're not all with reference to this squad, doesn't make mentioning them pointless. There are plenty of examples that show this bias. [Link]
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Dan1994

Wallington 03 Nov 17 9.51pm

The point was that there is a big club England bias. All those examples were meant to demonstrate that. I never said those were for this squad.

Zaha pre-Ivory Coast call up should've been in the squad over Jesse Lingard.

Dann at his peak (or any other defender) should have had a shout over Phil Jones who was s***e then.

Townsend this time round has been better than some of the players in the squad.

It took Defoe ages to get a shout in the England squad, despite bagging loads of goals.

Jack Wilshere and Dan Sturridge used to get in the squad despite being injured the majority of the time.

Similar to Defoe, Drinkwater should've got more of a look in. Didn't make the final cut of the Euros, despite playing for a team top of the league in the form of his life.

Just because they're not all with reference to this squad, doesn't make mentioning them pointless. There are plenty of examples that show this bias.

[Link]

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Painter Online Croydon 03 Nov 17 11.04pm
Originally posted by Dan1994 The point was that there is a big club England bias. All those examples were meant to demonstrate that. I never said those were for this squad. Zaha pre-Ivory Coast call up should've been in the squad over Jesse Lingard. Dann at his peak (or any other defender) should have had a shout over Phil Jones who was s***e then. Townsend this time round has been better than some of the players in the squad. It took Defoe ages to get a shout in the England squad, despite bagging loads of goals. Jack Wilshere and Dan Sturridge used to get in the squad despite being injured the majority of the time. Similar to Defoe, Drinkwater should've got more of a look in. Didn't make the final cut of the Euros, despite playing for a team top of the league in the form of his life. Just because they're not all with reference to this squad, doesn't make mentioning them pointless. There are plenty of examples that show this bias. Peter Taylor was playing for England, whilst at Palace in the old Third division. We were hardly a big club. It's not bias, it's how good they are at the time.
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Painter Online

Croydon 03 Nov 17 11.04pm