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Paradise papers

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View tome's Profile tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 05 Nov 17 6.57pm Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

[Link]

Seems like there's something here for everyone - republicans, Trump opposition, Russia bater, those who don't like Arsenal...

Wondering what we can realistically do though. Even if we shut the offshore tax avoidance schemes, someone else would open them instead. Any suggestions?

 


A one and a two...

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Online Flag Croydon 05 Nov 17 7.34pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Her Majesty investing in Brighthouse?

It's not even corgi registered.

The answer to all this?

Revolution.

 

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View Sportyteacher's Profile Sportyteacher Flag London 06 Nov 17 6.05am Send a Private Message to Sportyteacher Add Sportyteacher as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Her Majesty investing in Brighthouse?

It's not even corgi registered.

The answer to all this?

Revolution.

Very funny! Top reply.

By way of the story, this is what happens when we let Royal Family off the leash...

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 06 Nov 17 6.41am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Her Majesty investing in Brighthouse?

It's not even corgi registered.

The answer to all this?

Revolution.

When it comes to serious money and position there is no revolution without blood.

So that isn't going to happen.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Nov 2017 7.09am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 06 Nov 17 6.47am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by tome

[Link]

Seems like there's something here for everyone - republicans, Trump opposition, Russia bater, those who don't like Arsenal...

Wondering what we can realistically do though. Even if we shut the offshore tax avoidance schemes, someone else would open them instead. Any suggestions?

I do support us knowing about this kind of thing.

We live in a global system....nothing will change to any significance....but I hope the embarrassment will result in some more ethical investments from those in the public eye.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 06 Nov 17 8.32am Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

I partake in tax avoidance - there, I've said it:
* I have ISAs
* I have an offset mortgage
* I made a loss on a business venture, then sold a house in the same year and offset the loss against my CGT liability
* I put my charity donations on my tax return

The only way to tackle these issues is to pump a shedload of cash into HMRC and get the loopholes closed down - if you believe ways of avoiding tax are unethical, then make them illegal and enforce it.

I do find it a bit rich accusing the Queen of unethical tax avoidance though, since technically she is the recipient of the tax (and the tax she pays is largely voluntary - not that I'm implying that should be the case, of course, but it is)

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 06 Nov 17 8.38am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Just been hearing on the radio that there is nothing we can do and that these people have not broken any laws. "Tax is complicated and every country has its own jurisdiction and tax laws". I must admit to being fiscally challenged but why is it difficult?

1. If these people are British they should be subject to UK law. Can we not have a tax system that says we don't care where you invest your money you still pay full UK tax. This would kill the offshore tax havens for UK citizens. Why invest in a dodgy country with no legal protection if you have to pay full amount of UK tax?

2. Many of these offshore tax havens are UK territories quick to hold their hands out when they face a natural disaster. I would take a hard line, if you wish to remain British then you toe the line otherwise go independent. Try moving to Jersey and claiming benefits. How many refugees has the Isle of Man taken in? They all want British protection but don't want to be run by UK law. In short they are independent when it suits but them when in trouble "we are British".

3. Minimum tax threshold. We all know the story of the banker who pays less tax than the office cleaner. HMRC knows who these people are. Why not have a minimum tax threshold for the super rich. So said banker would be told we don't care how clever your accountant is you must pay a minimum of lets say 25% of your salary or more. I am a capitalist but everyone must pay their fair share of tax.

4. Corporates. Would tell the likes of Google and Amazon that I completely understand that they don't do business in the UK because they book their profits in Luxembourg or Ireland. Totally understand and agree with them.. Of course as they don't do business in the UK they will not object when the government orders all ISPs to block their websites. After all they don't do business in the UK. Sorry what's that? Oh this will impact their business? (that they don't do in the UK). Pony up or else.

 


One more point

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View Mr Fenandes's Profile Mr Fenandes Flag 06 Nov 17 8.42am Send a Private Message to Mr Fenandes Add Mr Fenandes as a friend

Originally posted by npn

I partake in tax avoidance - there, I've said it:
* I have ISAs
* I have an offset mortgage
* I made a loss on a business venture, then sold a house in the same year and offset the loss against my CGT liability
* I put my charity donations on my tax return

The only way to tackle these issues is to pump a shedload of cash into HMRC and get the loopholes closed down - if you believe ways of avoiding tax are unethical, then make them illegal and enforce it.

I do find it a bit rich accusing the Queen of unethical tax avoidance though, since technically she is the recipient of the tax (and the tax she pays is largely voluntary - not that I'm implying that should be the case, of course, but it is)

That's like admitting to also being a part of the sex scandals because you gave a girl a wine gum before sex. Surely it's not even in the same league.

Also, the Queen and her estate are surely even WORSE for fleecing us of our taxes and then having the cheek to try and avoid paying back. f*** her and the 1%. But watch the poor defend their rights to sponge off us.

Edited by Mr Fenandes (06 Nov 2017 8.44am)

 


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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 06 Nov 17 8.46am Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Originally posted by Mr Fenandes

That's like admitting to also being a sex offender because you gave a girl a wine gum before sex.

Also, the Queen and her estate are surely even WORSE for fleecing us of our taxes and then having the cheek to try and avoid paying back. f*** her and the 1%. But watch the poor defend their rights to sponge off us.

My point (clumsily made) was that most of us try to be "tax efficient". Nobody (as far as I've seen) in these papers has actually broken any laws and THAT is where the problem lies. Tighten the laws around offshore investment so you can't avoid lax legally. If HMRC and other government departments need resources to do that and police it, then give them those resources (pays for itself many times over in no time flat)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 06 Nov 17 8.49am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by npn

if you believe ways of avoiding tax are unethical, then make them illegal and enforce it.

We are responsible for the ethics of our own behaviour.

Behaviour by what is legal is something else.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 06 Nov 17 9.13am Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

We are responsible for the ethics of our own behaviour.

Behaviour by what is legal is something else.

In everyday life I agree. In tax, that's a legislation thing. The only difference between ISAs and offshore tax havens is that ISAs are "designed to be taken advantage of" so you're second guessing not only the law, but the intention behind the law. Just close the loopholes

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 06 Nov 17 9.23am

Enoch Powell discussed tax affairs in one of his books. In reference to tax officials asking questions about citizens financial arrangements that were outside their functions as defined by the law (at the time in 1967, the Inland Revenue asking for an analysis of holdings of stocks and shares that they were not entitled to ask). In response to a Minister saying "there is nothing improper" about this, Powell wrote:
"So far from there being 'nothing improper' about this, there is everything improper about it, and dangerous too. In a free country there is an actual duty upon the citizens not to submit to unauthorised inquisition, but while fully, accurately, conscientiously and (if possible) cheerfully doing what the law requires of him, to repudiate and repel encroachments upon his private affairs; for every such encroachment not resisted makes the next one easier, and soon people fall into a state where they fail any longer to distinguish between lawful authority and lawless authority, though that distinction is one of the most important distinctions in the world."

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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