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Not Fit To Govern

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 08 Nov 17 5.04pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Child poverty is a ticking bombshell for the Tories,
as under the Tory child poverty Act 2010 they have a statutory requirement to end child poverty by the 2020.

If it continues to increase at the present rate that will mean around 1 million more in addition to the 3.7 millions now.

These children have been pushed into poverty by the Tories cuts and austerity policies since 2010.

There just couldn't be a more abject failure.



Can we define what the term 'poverty' actually refers to though as per my email above

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 08 Nov 17 5.20pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The term child poverty is deliberately emotive since children don't earn money.
What are the parents spending their money on?

In times gone by, many people barely had a pot to piss in and yet managed to get by and feed their kids.

I see no evidence of this Victorian work house style existence today. Some people need a reality check.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (08 Nov 2017 5.03pm)

It's the debt spiral that gets em and buying the wrong things from the wrong places that gets em into it. There were no kids clothes at primary, Tesco etc years ago and no cheap multipacks of any unhealthy cr@p desired. People not knowing how to cook a meal from scratch is a big factor but when you watch life swap programmes it really is down to the last penny, much as it was before.

 


COYP

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 08 Nov 17 5.23pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

You're an idiot. All empirical data shows that reducing inequality from its current levels would increase productivity and increase output. This isn't simply theory.

The Laffer curve has also been shown, empirically, to only kick in at relatively high levels of taxation (above 60% top rate), so again, from real life, well tested data, increasing the top rate of tax to a more reasonable level wouldn't reduce effort, and so wouldn't impact on output, and in fact the tax raised could be used to fund investment in infrastructure, education and public services, all of which would have a multiplier effect on output and make the economy and society better off.

The extreme inequality in the UK and elsewhere across the globe is a huge break on economic productivity, both through inefficiencies of resources and in the way that the super wealthy go about avoid their proper contributions to the public purse, thereby forcing larger incidences of taxation on the less well off. The more skewed the income/wealth distribution the worse these two (huge) problems get.

Would it negate the fall in tax receipts from avoidance when going over that point it has done?

 


COYP

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 08 Nov 17 5.42pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

And no doubt you are a leading expert on child poverty.

Poverty is relative. When people are homeless, sharing a room with ten others or starving to death, then I will take notice.
If they smoke, drink and have a big flat screen TV then I'm not interested.

I refer you to my previous point. Your grasp of the situation appears limited to what you've seen in the Daily Mail.

 

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 08 Nov 17 5.45pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Lyons550

Just so i can start to get my head around the definition which is poverty...feel free to educate me here Cambridge...is the IMF definition based on a financial figure in relation to that countries GDP or similar?

The reason I ask is that a number of us seem to have different ideas...each perfectly valid as to what the term 'poverty' ACTUALLY means.

- Do we use the victorian example?
- Do we use the IMF fiscal measure?
- Do we use the measure that excludes various 'luxuries' such as Fags, Internet, Vehicles, Phones, Alcohol before 'poverty' can be reasonably claimed?

It's defined as being below 60% of median income (on a household basis) and figures are "equivalised" to take into account differing compositions of households and their relative needs. This figure is a good proxy for not being able to afford the basic activities and opportunities available to the average household.

 

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 08 Nov 17 5.47pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The term child poverty is deliberately emotive since children don't earn money.
What are the parents spending their money on?

In times gone by, many people barely had a pot to piss in and yet managed to get by and feed their kids.

I see no evidence of this Victorian work house style existence today. Some people need a reality check.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (08 Nov 2017 5.03pm)

Poverty defined on a household level, so it refers to % of children being brought up poor. We know poverty inhibits life opportunities and is a waste of human resources.

 

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 08 Nov 17 5.50pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Would it negate the fall in tax receipts from avoidance when going over that point it has done?


As I said there is a huge body of empirical evidence that clearly shows improved productivity and output across the board from reduced inequality and no evidence that increases in equality or tax rates up to levels way in excess of current tax rates that increasing tax rates to more reasonable levels (say 60% top rate) would increase avoidance above rates already prevalent.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 08 Nov 17 7.41pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

You're an idiot. All empirical data shows that reducing inequality from its current levels would increase productivity and increase output. This isn't simply theory.

The Laffer curve has also been shown, empirically, to only kick in at relatively high levels of taxation (above 60% top rate), so again, from real life, well tested data, increasing the top rate of tax to a more reasonable level wouldn't reduce effort, and so wouldn't impact on output, and in fact the tax raised could be used to fund investment in infrastructure, education and public services, all of which would have a multiplier effect on output and make the economy and society better off.

The extreme inequality in the UK and elsewhere across the globe is a huge break on economic productivity, both through inefficiencies of resources and in the way that the super wealthy go about avoid their proper contributions to the public purse, thereby forcing larger incidences of taxation on the less well off. The more skewed the income/wealth distribution the worse these two (huge) problems get.

And!
Your first line after the insult bit of course
Exactly how do you do this the inequality bit
So like
tax the rich
Give to the poor and SOME feckless
Eventually it means that the people being taxed think f**k this I'm off.
Then where do you get it from
Oh yeh borrow like labour did.
Your theory is correct ref tax avoidance and evasion.
They should come to the table.
Then smell the coffee and f off anyway.
It doesn't work unless the people at the bottom put their own effort in to show we all share the burden.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 08 Nov 17 8.19pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

As I said there is a huge body of empirical evidence that clearly shows improved productivity and output across the board from reduced inequality and no evidence that increases in equality or tax rates up to levels way in excess of current tax rates that increasing tax rates to more reasonable levels (say 60% top rate) would increase avoidance above rates already prevalent.

Can you give us idiots, who are not fluent in waffle, an English version of this.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 08 Nov 17 8.31pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Can you give us idiots, who are not fluent in waffle, an English version of this.

Exactly how much would this start at the 60% tax rate.
It isn't hard to earn 40k and more if you have a trade.
But it took at least 3 years of s***e to get a trade
Mine was 4.5 years on crap dough.
Going back a few years but even then it was crap.
One year on the YTS at 25£ a week.
Even on 40k it's still a bloody struggle now mate.
Not sure what your actual ideas are.
Can you enlighten a few idiots.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 08 Nov 17 8.31pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Exactly how much would this start at the 60% tax rate.
It isn't hard to earn 40k and more if you have a trade.
But it took at least 3 years of s***e to get a trade
Mine was 4.5 years on crap dough.
Going back a few years but even then it was crap.
One year on the YTS at 25£ a week.
Even on 40k it's still a bloody struggle now mate.
Not sure what your actual ideas are.
Can you enlighten a few idiots.

Not you hedgehog the man from cambridge

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 08 Nov 17 8.34pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I refer you to my previous point. Your grasp of the situation appears limited to what you've seen in the Daily Mail.

What I see with my own eyes actually. I never read the Daily Mail.

You keep on sowing the seeds of Lefty discontent. It's an amusing spectator sport for people of a certain age.

 

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