Alcohol Minimum Unit Pricing
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 topcat  Holmesdale / Surbiton 16 Nov 17 11.16am |
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Back on the original topic, I think it's an interesting idea and it will be good to see what the long term benefits are, if any, in Scotland before doing the same in England & Wales. Breweries need to be encouraged to make weaker beers taste as good as the stronger ones. A lot of real ales are under 4.5% and taste great but most (all?) lagers under 4.5% taste awful. Perhaps it's not possible?
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses. |
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cryrst  The garden of England 16 Nov 17 11.17am |
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In a society you need all shapes,sizes,ability
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| Midlands Eagle 16 Nov 17 11.22am |
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Originally posted by cryrst
I reckon the reason we are allowed the legal vices we have is to keep the population artificially low. The fact that many MPs smoke and drink also helps
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Nov 17 11.30am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
What a load of bollocks. I'm looking around me at work now, and there are people who are overweight. As for not liking wiping bottoms - I pay NI and tax because I want people cared for by professionals, who are trained and have experience - Not amateurs. Plus those people who are now 'carers' have to give up work in order to provide care. Meanwhile, carehomes costing 600 a week per patient, staffed by minimum wage staff are the norm, not the exception. Its an affront to the concept of provision for a countries citizens. Rather we should pay NI and tax sufficient to provide care for everyone, whatever their needs, or we don't. Along with education, the NHS remains the biggest return that tax payers will see for their NI and taxation - and possibly the most important. When we have money to pay for a new Nuclear submarine program or corporation tax cuts and incentives etc, we have money to pay for the health care of our citizens - and the failure to do so adequately represents a monumental failure of democratic governments to deliver for their people. And yes, I believe the country should have a military and a nuclear deterent - but not if it means we cannot deliver decent educational standards and healthcare to the people. I look at the US and how much it spends on its military, and how poor its health care provision is for its people, and its disgusting - There is money to provide massive defence expansion to 'protect the lives of citizens', but not to protect their lives from genuine common place threats to life, and quality of life. The cost of elderly care far exceeds most take home pay. A lot of people could look after their parents like other countries but it impacts their life so they choose not to. Some needs require specialist help but a lot don't. I agree that education and health care are the most important. If it's healthcare for everybody or something has to give to provide what everybody requires then it's never going to be defence that goes. Some family members took responsibility for their healthcare in later life and weren't interested in what others thought regarding inheritance. Good on them and probably why my view is if you can take responsibility in a country that isn't able to cover the cost then that's unfortunate. How many of the fatties at work don't move after work, drink and have pub lunches once, twice, three times a week? If we want a society that relies on an underfunded NHS due to everybody's greed, self interest or mortgage/ bill struggles and join the back of the growing queue after excess consumption or lack of movement then we carry on.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Nov 17 11.32am |
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Originally posted by topcat
Back on the original topic, I think it's an interesting idea and it will be good to see what the long term benefits are, if any, in Scotland before doing the same in England & Wales. Breweries need to be encouraged to make weaker beers taste as good as the stronger ones. A lot of real ales are under 4.5% and taste great but most (all?) lagers under 4.5% taste awful. Perhaps it's not possible? As Midlands said it could reduce consumption in young adults and kids. That's a good thing. I noticed the head of Magners I think welcomed it. No surprise there. Although he may have the right intentions, it'll be helped by the fact turbo white cider is closer in price to magners.
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| Mstrobez 16 Nov 17 11.41am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
As Midlands said it could reduce consumption in young adults and kids. That's a good thing. I noticed the head of Magners I think welcomed it. No surprise there. Although he may have the right intentions, it'll be helped by the fact turbo white cider is closer in price to magners. I highly doubt it, tryna stop kids from doing things that are "bad" just makes them wanna do it more. It just means they'll spend the extra. The reason I think it makes such little sense is because the white ace and special brews are still gonna be the drink of choice to get as drunk quickly on as little cans as possible. It'll still be the cheapest way of getting trollied.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Nov 17 11.42am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
The cost of elderly care far exceeds most take home pay. A lot of people could look after their parents like other countries but it impacts their life so they choose not to. Some needs require specialist help but a lot don't. I agree that education and health care are the most important. If it's healthcare for everybody or something has to give to provide what everybody requires then it's never going to be defence that goes. Some family members took responsibility for their healthcare in later life and weren't interested in what others thought regarding inheritance. Good on them and probably why my view is if you can take responsibility in a country that isn't able to cover the cost then that's unfortunate. How many of the fatties at work don't move after work, drink and have pub lunches once, twice, three times a week? If we want a society that relies on an underfunded NHS due to everybody's greed, self interest or mortgage/ bill struggles and join the back of the growing queue after excess consumption or lack of movement then we carry on. Now I'm not against the idea of some aspects such as taxing fast food, certain processed foods, ready meals and sugary beverages - in the same way we do alcohol and cigs - as a means of recouping costs to the NHS of those (same as I believe that legalising and taxing drugs and using the tax to deal with drug addiction is a better approach). But we already do this with alcohol, we levy a tax on the production of alcohol.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Nov 17 12.36pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Plus it fundamentally misunderstands the problem of alcoholism. It might have an impact on younger drinkers, but I doubt it. It will certainly increase the problems for alcoholics and their families. I don't disagree with the idea that the UK may have a problematic relationship with alcohol, but in an era where its almost impossible to get an affordable rehab place (privately or for the NHS) this seems to be counter-intuitive to the problem drinking in the UK. My father is a recovered alcoholic, 42 years and change. When he went into rehab there was virtually no waiting for a place. These days, he reckons, from talking with new AA members that you can be waiting for months to get a place on the NHS, if you can't afford to go private (which is a booming industry in the UK now). The key with addiction is often getting people into rehab when they've hit rock bottom, and experienced the 'moment of clarity'. If they're having to keep drinking for a month or two after that, well recovery seems less likely; its led to more people going through detox at home, without proper medical supervision which is dangerous. I agree, more and better funded rehab provision would be a good thing. I'm sure there would be an indirect positive affect upon crime and anti social figures. I'd also like to see gyms and health centres become more connected with government rather than it just being a private business enterprise.....but this is just off the top of my head. Anything that encourages the individual to choose healthy options rather than less healthy ones.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Nov 17 12.43pm |
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Originally posted by Mstrobez
I highly doubt it, tryna stop kids from doing things that are "bad" just makes them wanna do it more. It just means they'll spend the extra. The reason I think it makes such little sense is because the white ace and special brews are still gonna be the drink of choice to get as drunk quickly on as little cans as possible. It'll still be the cheapest way of getting trollied. I agree....there is no total fix to issues like these. There are only preferred paths. We live in a free society so while we should expect the state to encourage and where it can support healthy choices....Steps beyond that are controversial for me. The state exists for the best and the worse of us. The productive and the feckless. It should encourage healthy choices but has to recognise that not everyone is going to choose them.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Nov 17 12.52pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I agree, more and better funded rehab provision would be a good thing. I'm sure there would be an indirect positive affect upon crime and anti social figures. I'd also like to see gyms and health centres become more connected with government rather than it just being a private business enterprise.....but this is just off the top of my head. Anything that encourages the individual to choose healthy options rather than less healthy ones. Tandridge has a referral scheme that gets people into the gym. The condition some people are in an eye opener. Gyms are incredibly cheap these days. Lots of space in nearby council, not for profit gyms. De Stafford in Caterham about to undergo a major refurb after 20 years. Expensive gyms are being put out of business by 24 hour, £30 a month gyms. But you'll still see people swiping multibag after multipack of carbs, sugar and fat from the end of aisles and the crisp and confectionery aisles of Morrisons before finishing off in the cream cake corner. I don't go in Morrisons often but you'll see plenty shuffling in and out or unable to turn their 5 chins round to park their car in the car park. They could go to the top level and use the lift rather than hold everybody up. Christmas is 6 weeks away. Those tubs of chocolates 12 feet from the door are an essential before the fruit and veg in view. That should be legislated.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Nov 17 12.56pm |
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Reminds me of an overweight and retired elderly gentleman frothing at the newspaper area of the supermarket upon seeing Cameron's proposed sugar tax. I wonder what other costs to society he went home to moan about.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Nov 17 12.57pm |
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20 packs of beer should be removed from the entrance and end of aisles.
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