The Budget 2017

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 23 Nov 17 10.40am
My own opinion. It was a theatrical farce. Everything stage-managed, including May and Johnson (sp ?) Politicians are taking us all for mugs. Hammond was interviewed on the radio this morning, where it was disclosed he set up a company 30 years ago for building projects, but has been 'land-banking' (not building on acquired land until the value rises) and taking money from a related Trust Fund. They are all w@nkers, and I wish people would wake-up. Guy Fawkes had the right idea. "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 23 Nov 17 10.40am

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My own opinion.
It was a theatrical farce. Everything stage-managed, including May and Johnson (sp ?)

Politicians are taking us all for mugs.

Hammond was interviewed on the radio this morning, where it was disclosed he set up a company 30 years ago for building projects, but has been 'land-banking' (not building on acquired land until the value rises) and taking money from a related Trust Fund.

They are all w@nkers, and I wish people would wake-up.

Guy Fawkes had the right idea.

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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Midlands Eagle 23 Nov 17 11.10am
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly It was a theatrical farce. Everything stage-managed, including May and Johnson (sp ?) Politicians are taking us all for mugs. We live in an age where style is more important than substance.. I'm willing to bet that not many people can recall the substance of Mrs May's speech at the Conservative Party Conference yet they will no doubt recall that she couldn't stop coughing
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Midlands Eagle

23 Nov 17 11.10am

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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

It was a theatrical farce. Everything stage-managed, including May and Johnson (sp ?)

Politicians are taking us all for mugs.

We live in an age where style is more important than substance..

I'm willing to bet that not many people can recall the substance of Mrs May's speech at the Conservative Party Conference yet they will no doubt recall that she couldn't stop coughing

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Hrolf The Ganger 23 Nov 17 11.58am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle I'm not sure you understand what drives productivity. Inequality is one of the biggest breaks on an economy. I believe I do know what doesn't.
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Hrolf The Ganger

23 Nov 17 11.58am

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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I'm not sure you understand what drives productivity. Inequality is one of the biggest breaks on an economy.

I believe I do know what doesn't.

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Hrolf The Ganger 23 Nov 17 12.01pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle If you borrow to invest you create an asset so the net position is zero, or possibly even positive if you do it right (developers of assets usually get an immediate uplift on cost on completion). The asset then creates a return, which is extremely likely to yield in excess of the rate of borrowing. So the net effect is positive. Simple economics. Yes, if you can guarantee a return on that investment which is greater than the cost of borrowing. Where does the money go when Labour borrow money?
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Hrolf The Ganger

23 Nov 17 12.01pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

If you borrow to invest you create an asset so the net position is zero, or possibly even positive if you do it right (developers of assets usually get an immediate uplift on cost on completion). The asset then creates a return, which is extremely likely to yield in excess of the rate of borrowing. So the net effect is positive. Simple economics.

Yes, if you can guarantee a return on that investment which is greater than the cost of borrowing.

Where does the money go when Labour borrow money?

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 23 Nov 17 12.10pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle How so as according to my calculations the budget has had no effect on pensioners' incomes. Exactly. Triple lock still in place so a nice big increase in pensions. Higher rate tax paying pensions are laughing. Best off of anyone. Just happen to be the Tory base as well...
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 23 Nov 17 12.10pm

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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

How so as according to my calculations the budget has had no effect on pensioners' incomes.

Exactly. Triple lock still in place so a nice big increase in pensions. Higher rate tax paying pensions are laughing. Best off of anyone. Just happen to be the Tory base as well...

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 23 Nov 17 12.11pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 How you going to measure this? Why would the benefits diminish? Edited by hedgehog50 (23 Nov 2017 9.56am) Go as far as Denmark. Seems quite a decent option. You'd measure it by looking at changes in productivity, tax receipts, GDP, living standards.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 23 Nov 17 12.11pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

How you going to measure this? Why would the benefits diminish?

Edited by hedgehog50 (23 Nov 2017 9.56am)

Go as far as Denmark. Seems quite a decent option.

You'd measure it by looking at changes in productivity, tax receipts, GDP, living standards.

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 23 Nov 17 12.13pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Yes, if you can guarantee a return on that investment which is greater than the cost of borrowing. Where does the money go when Labour borrow money? Read the manifesto. Into public infrastructure, regional development, housing, R&D, public health, education. Government can borrow at very very low rates. Return on investment would certainly be higher than borrowing cost and debt would fall as % of GDP. Plenty of evidence of this from around the globe. Just look at US and Portugal.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 23 Nov 17 12.13pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Yes, if you can guarantee a return on that investment which is greater than the cost of borrowing.

Where does the money go when Labour borrow money?

Read the manifesto. Into public infrastructure, regional development, housing, R&D, public health, education.

Government can borrow at very very low rates. Return on investment would certainly be higher than borrowing cost and debt would fall as % of GDP.

Plenty of evidence of this from around the globe. Just look at US and Portugal.

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Hrolf The Ganger 23 Nov 17 12.29pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Read the manifesto. Into public infrastructure, regional development, housing, R&D, public health, education. Government can borrow at very very low rates. Return on investment would certainly be higher than borrowing cost and debt would fall as % of GDP. Plenty of evidence of this from around the globe. Just look at US and Portugal. Manifesto? That fantasy? The reality is that it will go on benefits, wasted by the NHS and on layers of management and overmanning. That is the Labour disease.
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Hrolf The Ganger

23 Nov 17 12.29pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Read the manifesto. Into public infrastructure, regional development, housing, R&D, public health, education.

Government can borrow at very very low rates. Return on investment would certainly be higher than borrowing cost and debt would fall as % of GDP.

Plenty of evidence of this from around the globe. Just look at US and Portugal.

Manifesto? That fantasy?

The reality is that it will go on benefits, wasted by the NHS and on layers of management and overmanning.

That is the Labour disease.

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Midlands Eagle 23 Nov 17 12.47pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Triple lock still in place so a nice big increase in pensions. Higher rate tax paying pensions are laughing. Best off of anyone. Just happen to be the Tory base as well... Speaking as a higher rate tax payer pensioner don't forget that I am still contributing to the country's coffers well after retirement age
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Midlands Eagle

23 Nov 17 12.47pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Triple lock still in place so a nice big increase in pensions. Higher rate tax paying pensions are laughing. Best off of anyone. Just happen to be the Tory base as well...

Speaking as a higher rate tax payer pensioner don't forget that I am still contributing to the country's coffers well after retirement age

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Nov 17 1.30pm
The time has come to invest in long term infrastructure projects and we'll find out if Hammond's are enough. I won't hold my breath. But what we can be certain of is that under Labour, youngsters were forgotten post further education many didn't need, and under conservative they've been neglected pre school leaving age, which is one thing that Brexit will force either or both of them to address. It almost needs Cross party policies that the housing shame undoubtedly needs. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 23 Nov 17 1.30pm

The time has come to invest in long term infrastructure projects and we'll find out if Hammond's are enough. I won't hold my breath.

But what we can be certain of is that under Labour, youngsters were forgotten post further education many didn't need, and under conservative they've been neglected pre school leaving age, which is one thing that Brexit will force either or both of them to address. It almost needs Cross party policies that the housing shame undoubtedly needs.

COYP

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 23 Nov 17 1.49pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Speaking as a higher rate tax payer pensioner don't forget that I am still contributing to the country's coffers well after retirement age So you deserve to benefit while others less fortunate lose out? Pensioners get a triple lock while nurses get real terms pay cuts, plus worse working conditions? But that's fair because pensions pay taxes? Why don't we just reroute pensioners' taxes straight back into their bank accounts? It's not like baby boomers got free higher education, cheap housing on the way in and big increases in wealth due to house price inflation, gold plated DB pension schemes or anything like that.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 23 Nov 17 1.49pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Speaking as a higher rate tax payer pensioner don't forget that I am still contributing to the country's coffers well after retirement age

So you deserve to benefit while others less fortunate lose out?

Pensioners get a triple lock while nurses get real terms pay cuts, plus worse working conditions?

But that's fair because pensions pay taxes? Why don't we just reroute pensioners' taxes straight back into their bank accounts?

It's not like baby boomers got free higher education, cheap housing on the way in and big increases in wealth due to house price inflation, gold plated DB pension schemes or anything like that.

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Midlands Eagle 23 Nov 17 3.06pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle So you deserve to benefit while others less fortunate lose out? Pensioners get a triple lock while nurses get real terms pay cuts, plus worse working conditions? But that's fair because pensions pay taxes? Why don't we just reroute pensioners' taxes straight back into their bank accounts? It's not like baby boomers got free higher education, cheap housing on the way in and big increases in wealth due to house price inflation, gold plated DB pension schemes or anything like that. I notice that for a leftie you don't seem to follow your leader's mantra for politeness in politics and as it seems that your understanding of economics is only geared to the wealthy middle classes in the South East perhaps I should remind you that the tens of thousands of retired factory workers and miners etc in the less prosperous industrial heartlands have to struggle through life in their council houses on just a state pension.
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Midlands Eagle

23 Nov 17 3.06pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

So you deserve to benefit while others less fortunate lose out?

Pensioners get a triple lock while nurses get real terms pay cuts, plus worse working conditions?

But that's fair because pensions pay taxes? Why don't we just reroute pensioners' taxes straight back into their bank accounts?

It's not like baby boomers got free higher education, cheap housing on the way in and big increases in wealth due to house price inflation, gold plated DB pension schemes or anything like that.

I notice that for a leftie you don't seem to follow your leader's mantra for politeness in politics and as it seems that your understanding of economics is only geared to the wealthy middle classes in the South East perhaps I should remind you that the tens of thousands of retired factory workers and miners etc in the less prosperous industrial heartlands have to struggle through life in their council houses on just a state pension.

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