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View elgrande's Profile elgrande Flag bedford 28 Nov 17 12.38pm Send a Private Message to elgrande Add elgrande as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

It would no longer be their property it would become local public housing stock.

The practice of sitting on empty properties and land for profit should be ended IMO.

Housing for peoples's needs not for gain.


To an extent I agree,but law should be bought in to make it illegal.
Untill then you cannot just take peoples property of them,thats called theft.
Andnon a side not to that,make compulsory purchases of said properties and the market rate...to take is theft and illegal.

Edited by elgrande (28 Nov 2017 12.40pm)

 


always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 28 Nov 17 12.47pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

It would no longer be their property it would become local public housing stock.

The practice of sitting on empty properties and land for profit should be ended IMO.

Housing for peoples's needs not for gain.


Alternatively, the council could take the responsibility for renting it from the owner. I don't like the idea of properties sitting empty just to accumulate value.

But I don't agree with the idea that the state should just be able to take such property either, not without reasonable compensation for the owner (value paid plus interest at the least).

Neither will happen; the UK housing market is too vital to the economy for any political party to upset it, and too many voters have investment property. The usual line of 'we'll build more property' will be the norm, and it'll all end up as investment property.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 28 Nov 17 12.55pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

No its not, highlighting the areas in which capitalism is failing people, and where its excesses cause suffering is the right thing to do. Unions aren't necessarily anti-capitalist, but they grew out of the leftist movements that arose because of the excesses of capitalism.

I don't have a problem with some capitalism, I think its reasonable system for attributing demand and value to resources.

As for spoiled, easy life - Do you really think that's enjoyed by all?

In relative terms, geographically and historically, yes.
I'm not suggesting that capitalism provides all the answers but without it, there is no question.
Many on the left criticise the well off while aspiring to and working toward being the same.
That has always been the problem with socialism, communism, Marxism and all things left wing.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (28 Nov 2017 12.58pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 28 Nov 17 1.11pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Exactly true, the hypocrisy of the right. And here is the key point, its an attempt to dismiss the stance, rather than tackle the subject.

As I said, hypocrisy is human nature.

Like infinities, some hypocrisies are larger than others.

Unless we are talking about the religious right the left are far more hypocritical than the right.....and progressives much more than them.

In fact progressives even beat the religious right in my estimation. They outdo them in sanctimonious moralizing zealotry and poe faced terminology.....and now they hold much more power than the religious right ever did.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2017 1.11pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 28 Nov 17 1.47pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Like infinities, some hypocrisies are larger than others.

Unless we are talking about the religious right the left are far more hypocritical than the right.....and progressives much more than them.

In fact progressives even beat the religious right in my estimation. They outdo them in sanctimonious moralizing zealotry and poe faced terminology.....and now they hold much more power than the religious right ever did.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2017 1.11pm)

I'd agree if someone was living in a very large house, avoiding tax etc that they were hypocritical, but if you've just moved on a bit, then that's a very different thing.

I don't begrudge people having a decent life, its the excessive divide that's an issue (and the excesses that go with that).

Its a capitalist world, I have to live in it. I think being critical of that, has helped me no end.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 28 Nov 17 1.54pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

In fact progressives even beat the religious right in my estimation. They outdo them in sanctimonious moralizing zealotry and poe faced terminology.....and now they hold much more power than the religious right ever did.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2017 1.11pm)

Some of them, yeah I'd agree with that. Some people are just c**ts.

I'm not sure what 'a progressive' is as that seems a fairly new buzzword. I'm pretty sure I am one to a greater or lesser degree, but I suspect that having always believed that all citizens should have the same rights, and that people should treat people as they would want to be treated themselves, probably makes me one.

I don't see a problem with that. I think sometimes people go too far, but then I don't really know how it feels as a black person to see statutes of confederate generals (for example).

What bemuses me is why people seem to hold stances that are irrationally prejudicial.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 28 Nov 17 3.00pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Some of them, yeah I'd agree with that. Some people are just c**ts.

I'm not sure what 'a progressive' is as that seems a fairly new buzzword. I'm pretty sure I am one to a greater or lesser degree, but I suspect that having always believed that all citizens should have the same rights, and that people should treat people as they would want to be treated themselves, probably makes me one.

I don't see a problem with that. I think sometimes people go too far, but then I don't really know how it feels as a black person to see statutes of confederate generals (for example).

What bemuses me is why people seem to hold stances that are irrationally prejudicial.

Tome asked me what I regarded as progressivism in another thread, I wrote this:

'The advocacy of identity politics, political correctness, multiculturalism, the instinctive over protection of minorities over majorities, third wave feminism, anti capitalism, the pursuit of equality over meritocracy, open borders, internationalism over nationalism.......the idea that people are just social constructs to be molded rather than biologically determined beings to significant degrees...Implicit and explicit misandry...an over blaming of masculinity for being 'toxic'...Essentially cultural Marxism mixed in with an over attachment to the impractical elements of egalitarianism'.

Now, I'm self aware enough to know that at the moment I'm going through a stage where....if I don't like something I tend to call it 'progressive', however I think....apart from a basic recognition of some elements of identity politics that I'm pretty against these ideas.

It's like communism....at its core there is a purity of intent that I'm attracted to myself. However, like most ideologies it gets fleshed out and expanded and becomes an all important doctrine and loses all sense of practical application... and becomes a disfigured monster far more harmful than what it purports to solve.....For example...look at political correctness.....at its heart it's about civility to others.....that's only a good thing and something to encourage. However, once overtly politicised it morphed from an encouragement into a restriction of what others could say...a way of shaming others and closing them down. That's a monster.

However, as for progressives themselves.....Well, I have a distaste for the ideas but I tend to treat people as I find them. So, If a person has principles that they live by and tries not to hurt anyone.....Well, that's always worthy of respect be it a lefty progressive or religious right winger.

The qualities of a person are more important than their politics.....many people aren't that political and follow tribal voting patterns.

Political activists tend to be irritating whatever party they push for.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2017 3.07pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Ray in Houston's Profile Ray in Houston Flag Houston 28 Nov 17 3.22pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

The practice of sitting on empty properties and land for profit should be ended IMO.


This is one of the more insidious effects of the mortgage crisis: it enabled the wealthy to buy up cheap properties and take them off the market. This, of course, reduces the available inventory, which pushes up the prices of properties and, hey presto! Instant profit.

This, coupled with the sell-off of council houses over the years - the availability of which was a great dampener on the cost of renting - means that rents charged can be increased with impunity because there is no alternative for most people. As properties become more expensive, more people are pushed into renting and, as the inventory of available rental units gets thin, rents go up further still.

This means that people are unable to save to buy a home because they are being drained of funds by high rents, while the cost of houses increases at a clip far greater than wages. So the first step onto the property ladder gets taller and taller, meaning only those with money can buy, and the cycle continues...

Compulsory purchase of empty properties is unlikely, being far too far along the path to central government control. However, there's nothing to stop the government and/or local councils from building affordable housing for rent. As a bonus, such infrastructure spending is a massive boon to the local economy.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 28 Nov 17 3.26pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Alternatively, the council could take the responsibility for renting it from the owner. I don't like the idea of properties sitting empty just to accumulate value.

But I don't agree with the idea that the state should just be able to take such property either, not without reasonable compensation for the owner (value paid plus interest at the least).

Neither will happen; the UK housing market is too vital to the economy for any political party to upset it, and too many voters have investment property. The usual line of 'we'll build more property' will be the norm, and it'll all end up as investment property.


That doesn't work as they don't pay the rent that is asked, they pay the amount of rent that they want to.

This is why most properties were always advertised as "no DHSS" back in the day.

Stopping foreign ownership is the correct route to go down and they should all be subject to the full rate of CGT when they are made to sell them.

 


Optimistic as ever

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