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Stirlingsays 28 Nov 17 4.03pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Well, learned behaviour is something none of us can avoid. No one can truly escape the effects of their upbringing. If you learned poor behaviour then you have to unlearn it and sometimes that needs help. As tempting as it would be to go and beat up your daughter's boyfriend because he slapped her, you would in effect be rewarding one bit of violence with another. Hardly a position from which you could claim moral superiority. I appreciate that it is easy to talk reason in hypotheticals. When it comes to protecting your own....as in a sister or daughter or even cousin the practical necessity of protection is more important than the troubled nature of their partner. I wasn't going to put up with anyone knocking my sister about. Violence, if necessary, has its place between males in matters like these. While I agree with your point about 'learned behaviour' up to a point (as in not everyone in a violent household carries it on) it really can only be that bloke themselves who can sort it out. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

28 Nov 17 4.03pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Well, learned behaviour is something none of us can avoid. No one can truly escape the effects of their upbringing.
If you learned poor behaviour then you have to unlearn it and sometimes that needs help.
As tempting as it would be to go and beat up your daughter's boyfriend because he slapped her, you would in effect be rewarding one bit of violence with another. Hardly a position from which you could claim moral superiority.
I appreciate that it is easy to talk reason in hypotheticals.

When it comes to protecting your own....as in a sister or daughter or even cousin the practical necessity of protection is more important than the troubled nature of their partner.

I wasn't going to put up with anyone knocking my sister about. Violence, if necessary, has its place between males in matters like these.

While I agree with your point about 'learned behaviour' up to a point (as in not everyone in a violent household carries it on) it really can only be that bloke themselves who can sort it out.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Nov 17 4.07pm
Originally posted by Stuk Wow. There are 160 more women killed per year by their partner or ex-partner, than there are total murders in a year according to police! Yeah I saw this - As it seems to be higher than the murder rate. But the murder rate maybe calculated differently, or be based on prosecutions for murder - and a lot of domestic violence cases are likely to have been prosecuted as manslaughter or similar offences. 2015 lists 186 female domestic homicides, of which 77% are classed as being by partners or ex-partners, the remaining 23% were by family members. 97% of all female homicides were committed by men. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 28 Nov 17 4.07pm

Originally posted by Stuk

Wow. There are 160 more women killed per year by their partner or ex-partner, than there are total murders in a year according to police!

Yeah I saw this - As it seems to be higher than the murder rate. But the murder rate maybe calculated differently, or be based on prosecutions for murder - and a lot of domestic violence cases are likely to have been prosecuted as manslaughter or similar offences.

2015 lists 186 female domestic homicides, of which 77% are classed as being by partners or ex-partners, the remaining 23% were by family members.

97% of all female homicides were committed by men.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Nov 17 4.11pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays When it comes to protecting your own....as in a sister or daughter or even cousin the practical necessity of protection is more important than the troubled nature of their partner. I wasn't going to put up with anyone knocking my sister about. Violence, if necessary, has its place between males in matters like these. While I agree with your point about 'learned behaviour' up to a point (as in not everyone in a violent household carries it on) it really can only be that bloke themselves who can sort it out. I agree with that in practice. Sometimes action has to be taken to protect. If you are a hitter, then you had better recognise that what you are doing is not only destructive to someone else but to you and what exists of a relationship. There is also the chance of retribution from concerned parties as you suggest. Of course, some people are just evil c***s who like hurting other people but that is another level.
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Nov 17 4.11pm

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

When it comes to protecting your own....as in a sister or daughter or even cousin the practical necessity of protection is more important than the troubled nature of their partner.

I wasn't going to put up with anyone knocking my sister about. Violence, if necessary, has its place between males in matters like these.

While I agree with your point about 'learned behaviour' up to a point (as in not everyone in a violent household carries it on) it really can only be that bloke themselves who can sort it out.

I agree with that in practice. Sometimes action has to be taken to protect.
If you are a hitter, then you had better recognise that what you are doing is not only destructive to someone else but to you and what exists of a relationship. There is also the chance of retribution from concerned parties as you suggest.
Of course, some people are just evil c***s who like hurting other people but that is another level.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Nov 17 4.11pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Well, learned behaviour is something none of us can avoid. No one can truly escape the effects of their upbringing. If you learned poor behaviour then you have to unlearn it and sometimes that needs help. As tempting as it would be to go and beat up your daughter's boyfriend because he slapped her, you would in effect be rewarding one bit of violence with another. Hardly a position from which you could claim moral superiority. I appreciate that it is easy to talk reason in hypotheticals. I think this is a very male response, to respond with violence (and I include myself here). Of course, your right it doesn't solve anything - and just makes it worse for say 'your daughter or sister' if you end up in jail for ABH or GBH. The rational me says, what you need to do is provide them with a way out, a place they can return to, where they are safe. Somewhere, you can protect them if necessary. The emotional me tends to think in terms of such people just 'disappearing'. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 28 Nov 17 4.11pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I think this is a very male response, to respond with violence (and I include myself here). Of course, your right it doesn't solve anything - and just makes it worse for say 'your daughter or sister' if you end up in jail for ABH or GBH.

The rational me says, what you need to do is provide them with a way out, a place they can return to, where they are safe. Somewhere, you can protect them if necessary.

The emotional me tends to think in terms of such people just 'disappearing'.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Nov 17 4.13pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Yeah I saw this - As it seems to be higher than the murder rate. But the murder rate maybe calculated differently, or be based on prosecutions for murder - and a lot of domestic violence cases are likely to have been prosecuted as manslaughter or similar offences. 2015 lists 186 female domestic homicides, of which 77% are classed as being by partners or ex-partners, the remaining 23% were by family members. 97% of all female homicides were committed by men. That's hardly a shock. Men commit the vast majority of murders full stop.
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Nov 17 4.13pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

2015 lists 186 female domestic homicides, of which 77% are classed as being by partners or ex-partners, the remaining 23% were by family members.

97% of all female homicides were committed by men.

That's hardly a shock. Men commit the vast majority of murders full stop.

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Stirlingsays 28 Nov 17 4.13pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Research does tend to bear this out, that men are more likely to experience violence from women in a relationship, than the reverse. However, the problem of domestic violence as a real tangible threat, and a cause of loss of life, is very much male on female violence. So whilst I do acknowledge that there is a high propensity of women on male violence, that isn't reflected in the situation where in people need access to shelters, regular visits to the ER and murder. Which is the problem here. It kind of distracts from the significant point, that as a cause of death among young women, violence by men is a problem. Somewhere in the region of 2 a week according to the Office of National Statistics (2016) (Current or ex-Partners being the culprit). Questionably these aren't always classed as murders either in statistics - as the UK murder rate is generally between 500-700 a year (or the methodology of the ONS is inconsistent). The same source cites 1.2m reported incidents in 2016 Yep, when it comes to serious violence men take all the infamous medals. Genetically many males are born with the capacity for violence, dodgy upbringings can even make.....an otherwise model child....into a real problem for society. That's why we always need to channel these traits into useful areas when young. It's all human nature and the statistics on all of this are out there and confirm the differences between men and women. However, women are violent in relationships too. I ducked plenty of plates in my twenties. The issue of violence is still very much a human...hell, animal trait and not a male one. It isn't abnormal or toxic.....it comes with the territory of being human. We all do it in different ways. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

28 Nov 17 4.13pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Research does tend to bear this out, that men are more likely to experience violence from women in a relationship, than the reverse.

However, the problem of domestic violence as a real tangible threat, and a cause of loss of life, is very much male on female violence. So whilst I do acknowledge that there is a high propensity of women on male violence, that isn't reflected in the situation where in people need access to shelters, regular visits to the ER and murder.

Which is the problem here. It kind of distracts from the significant point, that as a cause of death among young women, violence by men is a problem.

Somewhere in the region of 2 a week according to the Office of National Statistics (2016) (Current or ex-Partners being the culprit).

Questionably these aren't always classed as murders either in statistics - as the UK murder rate is generally between 500-700 a year (or the methodology of the ONS is inconsistent).

The same source cites 1.2m reported incidents in 2016

Yep, when it comes to serious violence men take all the infamous medals.

Genetically many males are born with the capacity for violence, dodgy upbringings can even make.....an otherwise model child....into a real problem for society. That's why we always need to channel these traits into useful areas when young.

It's all human nature and the statistics on all of this are out there and confirm the differences between men and women. However, women are violent in relationships too. I ducked plenty of plates in my twenties.

The issue of violence is still very much a human...hell, animal trait and not a male one. It isn't abnormal or toxic.....it comes with the territory of being human. We all do it in different ways.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Nov 17 4.17pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 I think this is a very male response, to respond with violence (and I include myself here). Of course, your right it doesn't solve anything - and just makes it worse for say 'your daughter or sister' if you end up in jail for ABH or GBH. The rational me says, what you need to do is provide them with a way out, a place they can return to, where they are safe. Somewhere, you can protect them if necessary. The emotional me tends to think in terms of such people just 'disappearing'. Yes. I think that is a very natural response. I would contemplate the worst things for someone who ever hurt my daughter. Unfortunately, I almost feel like a premeditated response like the latter is arguably less forgivable than someone who lashes out in anger and might well regret it after.
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Nov 17 4.17pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The rational me says, what you need to do is provide them with a way out, a place they can return to, where they are safe. Somewhere, you can protect them if necessary.

The emotional me tends to think in terms of such people just 'disappearing'.

Yes. I think that is a very natural response. I would contemplate the worst things for someone who ever hurt my daughter.

Unfortunately, I almost feel like a premeditated response like the latter is arguably less forgivable than someone who lashes out in anger and might well regret it after.

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Ray in Houston Houston 28 Nov 17 4.24pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Considering that this is an area you continually waffle about I'm surprised you don't know. [Link] [Link] [Link] From your linked articles: "Male violence remains a more serious phenomenon: men proved more likely than women to injure their partners. Female aggression tends to involve pushing, slapping and hurling objects. Yet men made up nearly 40 per cent of the victims in the cases that he studied - a figure much higher than previously reported." So if 40% are men, and there are 100 percents... Also, this refers only to domestic violence within relationships, and considers nothing of violence outside of relationships, like in the street or in a producer's hotel room. Edited by Ray in Houston (28 Nov 2017 4.26pm) We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 28 Nov 17 4.24pm

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Considering that this is an area you continually waffle about I'm surprised you don't know.

[Link]

From your linked articles:

"Male violence remains a more serious phenomenon: men proved more likely than women to injure their partners. Female aggression tends to involve pushing, slapping and hurling objects. Yet men made up nearly 40 per cent of the victims in the cases that he studied - a figure much higher than previously reported."

So if 40% are men, and there are 100 percents...

Also, this refers only to domestic violence within relationships, and considers nothing of violence outside of relationships, like in the street or in a producer's hotel room.

Edited by Ray in Houston (28 Nov 2017 4.26pm)

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stirlingsays 28 Nov 17 4.25pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I agree with that in practice. Sometimes action has to be taken to protect. If you are a hitter, then you had better recognise that what you are doing is not only destructive to someone else but to you and what exists of a relationship. There is also the chance of retribution from concerned parties as you suggest. Of course, some people are just evil c*s who like hurting other people but that is another level. Some of us get really s*ty examples growing up. I do have genuine sympathy for those who have to carry that crap around inside them. A good woman can help sort them out...though I can only imagine the horror that some relationships have gone through on this. But the capable males in a family should always be there if needed for their family's females. That's what a strong family do. But as we know some woman come from broken or crap families and are heavily mixed up with violence themselves. We are human, we are dysfunctional. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

28 Nov 17 4.25pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Some of us get really s***ty examples growing up. I do have genuine sympathy for those who have to carry that crap around inside them. A good woman can help sort them out...though I can only imagine the horror that some relationships have gone through on this.

But the capable males in a family should always be there if needed for their family's females. That's what a strong family do.

But as we know some woman come from broken or crap families and are heavily mixed up with violence themselves.

We are human, we are dysfunctional.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 28 Nov 17 4.27pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston From your linked articles: "Male violence remains a more serious phenomenon: men proved more likely than women to injure their partners. Female aggression tends to involve pushing, slapping and hurling objects. Yet men made up nearly 40 per cent of the victims in the cases that he studied - a figure much higher than previously reported." So if 40% are men, and there are 100 percents... You are ignoring a lot of stuff to find that but yeah.....What we are talking about is the type of violence. When it comes to serious violence, men are the main issue.....more to other males than females but also to women. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

28 Nov 17 4.27pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

From your linked articles:

So if 40% are men, and there are 100 percents...

You are ignoring a lot of stuff to find that but yeah.....What we are talking about is the type of violence.

When it comes to serious violence, men are the main issue.....more to other males than females but also to women.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stuk Top half 28 Nov 17 4.28pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Yeah I saw this - As it seems to be higher than the murder rate. But the murder rate maybe calculated differently, or be based on prosecutions for murder - and a lot of domestic violence cases are likely to have been prosecuted as manslaughter or similar offences. 2015 lists 186 female domestic homicides, of which 77% are classed as being by partners or ex-partners, the remaining 23% were by family members. 97% of all female homicides were committed by men. That was total number of murders and killings, so the murder rate was lower than 570ish. To put it bluntly, there is no way that 2 women are killed everyday in the UK by a partner, ex-partner or by any other form you could think of. 1 per day would still not even come close to it. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 28 Nov 17 4.28pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

2015 lists 186 female domestic homicides, of which 77% are classed as being by partners or ex-partners, the remaining 23% were by family members.

97% of all female homicides were committed by men.

That was total number of murders and killings, so the murder rate was lower than 570ish.

To put it bluntly, there is no way that 2 women are killed everyday in the UK by a partner, ex-partner or by any other form you could think of.

1 per day would still not even come close to it.

Optimistic as ever

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Nov 17 4.40pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Some of us get really s*ty examples growing up. I do have genuine sympathy for those who have to carry that crap around inside them. A good woman can help sort them out...though I can only imagine the horror that some relationships have gone through on this. But the capable males in a family should always be there if needed for their family's females. That's what a strong family do. But as we know some woman come from broken or crap families and are heavily mixed up with violence themselves. We are human, we are dysfunctional.** We are, in terms of what society considers acceptable. Sadly, bad behaviour is all too human.
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Nov 17 4.40pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

But the capable males in a family should always be there if needed for their family's females. That's what a strong family do.

But as we know some woman come from broken or crap families and are heavily mixed up with violence themselves.

We are human, we are dysfunctional.

We are, in terms of what society considers acceptable.
Sadly, bad behaviour is all too human.

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