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December 11 2017 4.47pm

Momentum investigation

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 07 Dec 17 5.13pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

There you go again, 'the Left'. It's like they are a different genus. Simplistic labelling results in an 'us and them' discussion from the outset rather than some kind of reasonable debate on its merits.

In the same way as I don't trust extremists of any kind this is a group that makes most people uncomfortable. I don't suppose they are worse than Vote Leave for example but I wouldn't trust them. And I know some were bussed in to Croydon during the last election. I know this because a Labour activist of my acquaintance was bemoaning that fact.

People with only one thing on their mind are downright dangerous and at best irritating.

Methinks you dost protest too much.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 07 Dec 17 5.26pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

But we are not in 'momentum' and should not be labelled as left wing when it doesn't fit anyway.

It is an irritating stereotype used by people in the absence of any argument.

It's particularly annoying to be labelled as a 'leftie' purely because I have an open mind receptive to new ideas.

We are in the society because we have to be, but that does not mean that we are of it....

Open our minds and let us be rid of redundant 'left' and 'right' stereotyping.

What is left wing then?
I don't get it.
I'm right wing IE agree with Tory cause and affect.
Yes I'm alright jack.
I'm not an apologist for what they do
Give people who help themselves a help and people who don't give a s**t a help.
What will labour or the left do.
What they always have and will do
Buy the votes.
I'm sorry but look at the history of it.
Labour in country shagged
Labour out Tory in
Sort out the mess and get abused for doing it.
Labour in country shagged
Labour out Tory in
It's a never ending saga
All the world's a stage and we are the players.
Show me evidence any different !?

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 07 Dec 17 5.32pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

What is left wing then?
I don't get it.
I'm right wing IE agree with Tory cause and affect.
Yes I'm alright jack.
I'm not an apologist for what they do
Give people who help themselves a help and people who don't give a s**t a help.
What will labour or the left do.
What they always have and will do
Buy the votes.
I'm sorry but look at the history of it.
Labour in country shagged
Labour out Tory in
Sort out the mess and get abused for doing it.
Labour in country shagged
Labour out Tory in
It's a never ending saga
All the world's a stage and we are the players.
Show me evidence any different !?

So why bother debating politics? Or following it at all for that matter - just show up on Election Day, vote Tory, and forget all about it until the next time.


 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 07 Dec 17 5.37pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

So why bother debating politics? Or following it at all for that matter - just show up on Election Day, vote Tory, and forget all about it until the next time.


That is what I do
Ironically I do read the manifestos (sad)
But still can't find positive in labours.
Not for me or mine anyway. Maybe propoganda plays a part but I can just remember my old man constantly on strike in the 70s three day week blah blah
I'm for debate and ok I honestly don't agree with everything that happens.
But I cannot see one negative outwaying what I see against the positives I agree with.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 07 Dec 17 5.46pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Methinks you dost protest too much.

No, I doth not. I have said this before. Forcing people into taking sides is exactly what prevents decent discussion and any hope of momentum in our society.

I hate people that hijack debate (or specific words) for their causes celebres.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View nickgusset's Profile nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 07 Dec 17 6.28pm Send a Private Message to nickgusset Add nickgusset as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

wheres nick

There s me thinking that naming people to get a response was frowned upon.


S'funny all the people complaining were very quiet when the Tories and UKIP were accused of the same thing.

If they've overspent, fine them. Or just let them off as is what happened with multiple Tory constituencies.

 


[Link]

My Signature has been banned

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View elgrande's Profile elgrande Online Flag bedford 07 Dec 17 6.34pm Send a Private Message to elgrande Add elgrande as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

There s me thinking that naming people to get a response was frowned upon.


S'funny all the people complaining were very quiet when the Tories and UKIP were accused of the same thing.

If they've overspent, fine them. Or just let them off as is what happened with multiple Tory constituencies.

just doing what you did with the tory allegations.

you bought the tory one up with in minutes .whats the difference.

 


always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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View elgrande's Profile elgrande Online Flag bedford 07 Dec 17 6.36pm Send a Private Message to elgrande Add elgrande as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

But we are not in 'momentum' and should not be labelled as left wing when it doesn't fit anyway.

It is an irritating stereotype used by people in the absence of any argument.

It's particularly annoying to be labelled as a 'leftie' purely because I have an open mind receptive to new ideas.

We are in the society because we have to be, but that does not mean that we are of it....

Open our minds and let us be rid of redundant 'left' and 'right' stereotyping.

But its ok for the everyone to call people they do not agree with "right wing".

 


always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 07 Dec 17 6.46pm Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

I'm a member of Momentum, and I have to say I think this whole thing's a bloody farce.

The headline is obviously tantalising for our opponents, but look at the details of this story and you'll see it's a storm in a tea cup. The Electoral Commission have said they'd investigate, as they do with almost any non-party organisation involved in the election. Momentum said they'd be happy to take part, having already released their expenses for the election.

The Standard, the Times etc have their story though. Needless to say that when the investigation actually comes back with its findings, they'll report them on the 35th page, but for now they can stamp it on the front page with the usual 'hard-left', 'Trots' etc labels.

It's nearly as ludicrous as this whole 'purge of the moderates' argument that's going on. But that's for another thread me thinks...

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 07 Dec 17 6.59pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

I'm a member of Momentum, and I have to say I think this whole thing's a bloody farce.

The headline is obviously tantalising for our opponents, but look at the details of this story and you'll see it's a storm in a tea cup. The Electoral Commission have said they'd investigate, as they do with almost any non-party organisation involved in the election. Momentum said they'd be happy to take part, having already released their expenses for the election.

The Standard, the Times etc have their story though. Needless to say that when the investigation actually comes back with its findings, they'll report them on the 35th page, but for now they can stamp it on the front page with the usual 'hard-left', 'Trots' etc labels.

It's nearly as ludicrous as this whole 'purge of the moderates' argument that's going on. But that's for another thread me thinks...

What is momentum's wants going forward then with you being a member and all.
Or is it just stating how wrong the existing party is.
That's the whole problem
No concrete policies, just seems to highlight how bad the incumbents are.
I get students free education
Great in theory total no go financially
Any more?

 

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 07 Dec 17 7.25pm Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

What is momentum's wants going forward then with you being a member and all.
Or is it just stating how wrong the existing party is.
That's the whole problem
No concrete policies, just seems to highlight how bad the incumbents are.
I get students free education
Great in theory total no go financially
Any more?

Good question!

Momentum was born out of a group in Labour called the CLPD - the Campaign for Labour Party Democracy. It was run mainly by people like John Lansman and Mcdonnell, and it was a sort of protest movement at the top-down reorganisation of the Party by Mandelson.

Instead of party members electing local council nominees and Parliamentary candidates, the decision making was transferred to Whitehall and the NEC. That basically meant you got people like Tristram Hunt being put up in a place like Stoke on Trent, a person with about as much to do with Stoke on Trent as Alan Mullery does with Crystal Palace.

So their first job was to wrestle control back from the beureaucracy and give it back to members. Then, during the election, they were tasked with mobilising new Labour members, which they evidently did with incredible success.

As for policies, Momentum now is a really large organisation, with nearly as many members as the Tories. It took in people from anti-war backgrounds, climate backgrounds, housing, immigration, education...so lack of policy ideas is certainly not an issue!

As for free education not being financially viable, how do you think they manage to do it in Germany then?

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 07 Dec 17 8.18pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

Good question!

Momentum was born out of a group in Labour called the CLPD - the Campaign for Labour Party Democracy. It was run mainly by people like John Lansman and Mcdonnell, and it was a sort of protest movement at the top-down reorganisation of the Party by Mandelson.

Instead of party members electing local council nominees and Parliamentary candidates, the decision making was transferred to Whitehall and the NEC. That basically meant you got people like Tristram Hunt being put up in a place like Stoke on Trent, a person with about as much to do with Stoke on Trent as Alan Mullery does with Crystal Palace.

So their first job was to wrestle control back from the beureaucracy and give it back to members. Then, during the election, they were tasked with mobilising new Labour members, which they evidently did with incredible success.

As for policies, Momentum now is a really large organisation, with nearly as many members as the Tories. It took in people from anti-war backgrounds, climate backgrounds, housing, immigration, education...so lack of policy ideas is certainly not an issue!

As for free education not being financially viable, how do you think they manage to do it in Germany then?

Firstly education.
I think maybe that needs investigating but maybe that are richer than us bearing in mind they are no 2 or 3 in the world's
( rich list). That may be how they afford it. Alternatively maybe they don't allow any type of course and may limit the ones where a tiny percentage will get a job relavent to the training. IE media etc.
( Not saying it's not learning but hardly a highly 'wanted' qualification) according to what I've seen and heard.
Now on to why momentum started
I see that you disagreed with core labour thought and policy. Seems very hardline without sitting down and meeting with them.
Sort of bullying the core vote into thinking like you then.
Could you not have met them on some middle ground as now you are seen as a problem in my eyes.
I get that local people for local issues but the same rules for most things apply nationally.
What are your basic policies on what you list then.
A house for everyone no matter what you put in.
No more wars EVER.
Stop fossil fuel and all get a treadmill.
Everyone welcome to build this big utopia.
I'm afraid that won't work and I still don't get your mission and why.

 

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