Cup Tie on TV/ VAR Technology going to be tried

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DutchEagleJohan Vlissingen, Netherlands 07 Dec 17 5.11pm
Now that is an easy one on "facts", this technology is common place now. however overall I think it is a big step forward. We are expecting too much from a single person on the pitch who has to follow a game that is certainly much faster then a few decades ago and also far less honest with loads of cheating going on. Technology I do believe can play a huge part. My best football mate strongly disagrees and considers refereeing mistakes a part of the romance of football but I for one am completely sick of all the rolling around, players clipping their own legs, going to ground with pundits saying "he was entitled to", trying to get fellow players a second yellow by feigning, all the bad parts. It is not rocket science, use the options available. And oh yes: keep pricks like Clattenburg away from the beautiful game. Originally posted by Willo VAR was in place for the England v Germany friendly recently but wasn't used at all. People have to get away from believing that VAR is a panacea - there will still be cases where 'Fact' doesn't come into it (Like ball over/not over the line) and subjective decisions are made.
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DutchEagleJohan

Vlissingen, Netherlands 07 Dec 17 5.11pm

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Now that is an easy one on "facts", this technology is common place now.
however overall I think it is a big step forward. We are expecting too much from a single person on the pitch who has to follow a game that is certainly much faster then a few decades ago and also far less honest with loads of cheating going on. Technology I do believe can play a huge part. My best football mate strongly disagrees and considers refereeing mistakes a part of the romance of football but I for one am completely sick of all the rolling around, players clipping their own legs, going to ground with pundits saying "he was entitled to", trying to get fellow players a second yellow by feigning, all the bad parts.
It is not rocket science, use the options available. And oh yes: keep pricks like Clattenburg away from the beautiful game.

Originally posted by Willo

VAR was in place for the England v Germany friendly recently but wasn't used at all.

People have to get away from believing that VAR is a panacea - there will still be cases where 'Fact' doesn't come into it (Like ball over/not over the line) and subjective decisions are made.

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Direwolf Lincoln 07 Dec 17 5.12pm
Originally posted by Stuk You can't conduct a test in a competition where you are effectively asking just 2 teams to operate to a different set of rules to everyone else. You either have VAR in every game of that round, or none of them. And they've still chosen a high profile game, featuring two PL teams, particularly due to the piss poor way the last league tie was handled. I'm not sure that this requires two teams to operate to a different set of rules as such. The same rules of football will apply - there will just be an additional set of eyes looking at the decision? What I'm not sure about is does the ref on the pitch have to refer to VAR for it to be used (as in rugby)or does the additional ref in the video box just shout in his ear? If it is the former then refs will just carry on as usual won't they if they believe they are right? If it is the latter I would expect players to be surrounding the ref in a very vocal manner every time a decision is made. Oh hang on - they do that anyway - except Palace who just say 'well that's a tad unfair' under their breath'.
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Direwolf

Lincoln 07 Dec 17 5.12pm

Originally posted by Stuk

You can't conduct a test in a competition where you are effectively asking just 2 teams to operate to a different set of rules to everyone else. You either have VAR in every game of that round, or none of them.

And they've still chosen a high profile game, featuring two PL teams, particularly due to the piss poor way the last league tie was handled.

I'm not sure that this requires two teams to operate to a different set of rules as such. The same rules of football will apply - there will just be an additional set of eyes looking at the decision?
What I'm not sure about is does the ref on the pitch have to refer to VAR for it to be used (as in rugby)or does the additional ref in the video box just shout in his ear? If it is the former then refs will just carry on as usual won't they if they believe they are right?
If it is the latter I would expect players to be surrounding the ref in a very vocal manner every time a decision is made. Oh hang on - they do that anyway - except Palace who just say 'well that's a tad unfair' under their breath'.

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Stuk Top half 07 Dec 17 5.17pm
Originally posted by Direwolf I'm not sure that this requires two teams to operate to a different set of rules as such. The same rules of football will apply - there will just be an additional set of eyes looking at the decision? What I'm not sure about is does the ref on the pitch have to refer to VAR for it to be used (as in rugby)or does the additional ref in the video box just shout in his ear? If it is the former then refs will just carry on as usual won't they if they believe they are right? If it is the latter I would expect players to be surrounding the ref in a very vocal manner every time a decision is made. Oh hang on - they do that anyway - except Palace who just say 'well that's a tad unfair' under their breath'. But only ours will be retrospectively. In rugby the ref can request it or his touch-judges/TMO can tell him they've spotted something. No idea how it works in football yet, but I've seen reports that they still get things wrong even when using it. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 07 Dec 17 5.17pm

Originally posted by Direwolf

I'm not sure that this requires two teams to operate to a different set of rules as such. The same rules of football will apply - there will just be an additional set of eyes looking at the decision?
What I'm not sure about is does the ref on the pitch have to refer to VAR for it to be used (as in rugby)or does the additional ref in the video box just shout in his ear? If it is the former then refs will just carry on as usual won't they if they believe they are right?
If it is the latter I would expect players to be surrounding the ref in a very vocal manner every time a decision is made. Oh hang on - they do that anyway - except Palace who just say 'well that's a tad unfair' under their breath'.

But only ours will be retrospectively.

In rugby the ref can request it or his touch-judges/TMO can tell him they've spotted something.

No idea how it works in football yet, but I've seen reports that they still get things wrong even when using it.

Optimistic as ever

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kenbarr Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 07 Dec 17 5.18pm
I'm still to be convinced that VAR will result in better officiating. The final decision is still dependent on how the laws are interpreted and the camera angles that are available. Divorced...And LOVING it! VJRAM Rev. CPFC since Boxing Day 1989 CPFC 2-2 CFC Gregg Berhalter, US International & USMNT Head Coach Jill Ellis, England International & Retired USWNT Head Coach Trevor Francis, International PRAT
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kenbarr

Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 07 Dec 17 5.18pm

I'm still to be convinced that VAR will result in better officiating. The final decision is still dependent on how the laws are interpreted and the camera angles that are available.

Divorced...And LOVING it!
VJRAM Rev.
CPFC since Boxing Day 1989 CPFC 2-2 CFC
Gregg Berhalter, US International & USMNT Head Coach
Jill Ellis, England International & Retired USWNT Head Coach
Trevor Francis, International PRAT

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doublesuited77 London (Camden) 07 Dec 17 5.21pm
so let me get this straight. A near riot almost breaks out in the previous fixture and we decide this is the one to test new technology? Seems like there are a dozen other matches which would make more sense. All that's left is for craig pawson to be named referee Edited by doublesuited77 (07 Dec 2017 5.24pm) Be Loud, Be Proud, Be Palace
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doublesuited77

London (Camden) 07 Dec 17 5.21pm

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so let me get this straight. A near riot almost breaks out in the previous fixture and we decide this is the one to test new technology? Seems like there are a dozen other matches which would make more sense.

All that's left is for craig pawson to be named referee

Edited by doublesuited77 (07 Dec 2017 5.24pm)

Be Loud, Be Proud, Be Palace

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Ian-VI Vicenza 07 Dec 17 5.36pm
Oh finally the VAR! So glad! Here in Italy it has been used in Serie A since the beginning of the season, and, although they're still working on it, trying to find the best way to use it, it has been a great improvement, especially in a corrupted country like Italy. Players behave better because they know they'd get found out, supporters complain less because they know the incident was checked and so trust in the judgement, and blatant unfair incidents are not happening any more. And as for Palace, I guess we are the last ones to worry about VAR, other teams might... not us! P.S. Gazzetta dello Sport did a survey, to hear supporters after some months of using VAR,and guess what? 84% of medium-small teams supporters are happy about VAR, only 13% is against it. Instead, 26% of Juventus supporters are against it... funny isn't it? The best footie management game: [Link]
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Ian-VI

Vicenza 07 Dec 17 5.36pm

Oh finally the VAR! So glad!
Here in Italy it has been used in Serie A since the beginning of the season, and, although they're still working on it, trying to find the best way to use it, it has been a great improvement, especially in a corrupted country like Italy.
Players behave better because they know they'd get found out, supporters complain less because they know the incident was checked and so trust in the judgement, and blatant unfair incidents are not happening any more.

And as for Palace, I guess we are the last ones to worry about VAR, other teams might... not us!
P.S. Gazzetta dello Sport did a survey, to hear supporters after some months of using VAR,and guess what? 84% of medium-small teams supporters are happy about VAR, only 13% is against it. Instead, 26% of Juventus supporters are against it... funny isn't it?

The best footie management game: [Link]

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Stuk Top half 07 Dec 17 5.43pm
Originally posted by Ian-VI Oh finally the VAR! So glad! Here in Italy it has been used in Serie A since the beginning of the season, and, although they're still working on it, trying to find the best way to use it, it has been a great improvement, especially in a corrupted country like Italy. Players behave better because they know they'd get found out, supporters complain less because they know the incident was checked and so trust in the judgement, and blatant unfair incidents are not happening any more. And as for Palace, I guess we are the last ones to worry about VAR, other teams might... not us! P.S. Gazzetta dello Sport did a survey, to hear supporters after some months of using VAR,and guess what? 84% of medium-small teams supporters are happy about VAR, only 13% is against it. Instead, 26% of Juventus supporters are against it... funny isn't it? They aren't keen on it in Germany. Doesn't help that the bloke in charge of it was a Schalke fan and was rigging it in their favour. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 07 Dec 17 5.43pm

Originally posted by Ian-VI

They aren't keen on it in Germany. Doesn't help that the bloke in charge of it was a Schalke fan and was rigging it in their favour.

Optimistic as ever

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jeeagles 07 Dec 17 5.56pm
In general this is a good move but it will take time for officials to work out when to use it and when not to use it. Given that I don't think a Derby game is a sensible time to try it out. When I was watching the 2007 RWC final and it took 4 minutes for the ref not to award Mark Ceuto's try some I was with commented they have never seen someone swear so much in such a short period of time. Learning points from rugby are: - Give the refs microphones and make them explain their decisions to the players. - Be clear if the attacking or defending team has the benefit of the doubt. - Give a time limit to make decisions, if it still can't be decided, go with the gut instinct. - Give a clear remit to the TV official for each decision. - If there is an act of serious foul play that the referee misses the TV official can call it up at the next break in play. I do think they've got the 3 scenario's in which they use the video refs pretty much right. Sin bins next please.
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jeeagles

07 Dec 17 5.56pm

In general this is a good move but it will take time for officials to work out when to use it and when not to use it. Given that I don't think a Derby game is a sensible time to try it out.

When I was watching the 2007 RWC final and it took 4 minutes for the ref not to award Mark Ceuto's try some I was with commented they have never seen someone swear so much in such a short period of time.

Learning points from rugby are:
- Give the refs microphones and make them explain their decisions to the players.
- Be clear if the attacking or defending team has the benefit of the doubt.
- Give a time limit to make decisions, if it still can't be decided, go with the gut instinct.
- Give a clear remit to the TV official for each decision.
- If there is an act of serious foul play that the referee misses the TV official can call it up at the next break in play.

I do think they've got the 3 scenario's in which they use the video refs pretty much right.

Sin bins next please.

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YT Oxford 07 Dec 17 6.39pm
Originally posted by Maine Eagle Brighton to finish with 8 men and Zaha to win 4 penalties. ......and us to miss them all and crash out 0-1 Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 07 Dec 17 6.39pm

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Brighton to finish with 8 men and Zaha to win 4 penalties.

......and us to miss them all and crash out 0-1

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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Spiderman Horsham 07 Dec 17 6.42pm
Originally posted by Willo VAR was in place for the England v Germany friendly recently but wasn't used at all. People have to get away from believing that VAR is a panacea - there will still be cases where 'Fact' doesn't come into it (Like ball over/not over the line) and subjective decisions are made. My concern is that our refs are so far up their own a***s that they will not refer decisions. Sorry if this upsets you Mr Clattenburg Senior. Rugby refs are far superior to anyone in the Premier League
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Spiderman

Horsham 07 Dec 17 6.42pm

Originally posted by Willo

VAR was in place for the England v Germany friendly recently but wasn't used at all.

People have to get away from believing that VAR is a panacea - there will still be cases where 'Fact' doesn't come into it (Like ball over/not over the line) and subjective decisions are made.

My concern is that our refs are so far up their own a***s that they will not refer decisions. Sorry if this upsets you Mr Clattenburg Senior. Rugby refs are far superior to anyone in the Premier League

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Spiderman Horsham 07 Dec 17 6.45pm
Originally posted by Willo VAR was in place for the England v Germany friendly recently but wasn't used at all. People have to get away from believing that VAR is a panacea - there will still be cases where 'Fact' doesn't come into it (Like ball over/not over the line) and subjective decisions are made. WTF does this mean? If Mark doesn't want to give it that's alright??
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Spiderman

Horsham 07 Dec 17 6.45pm

Originally posted by Willo

VAR was in place for the England v Germany friendly recently but wasn't used at all.

People have to get away from believing that VAR is a panacea - there will still be cases where 'Fact' doesn't come into it (Like ball over/not over the line) and subjective decisions are made.

WTF does this mean? If Mark doesn't want to give it that's alright??

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Direwolf Lincoln 07 Dec 17 7.31pm
Originally posted by doublesuited77 so let me get this straight. A near riot almost breaks out in the previous fixture and we decide this is the one to test new technology? Seems like there are a dozen other matches which would make more sense. All that's left is for craig pawson to be named referee Edited by doublesuited77 (07 Dec 2017 5.24pm) Any decent conspiracy theorist would say it was to keep a better eye on the fans.
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Direwolf

Lincoln 07 Dec 17 7.31pm

Originally posted by doublesuited77

so let me get this straight. A near riot almost breaks out in the previous fixture and we decide this is the one to test new technology? Seems like there are a dozen other matches which would make more sense.

All that's left is for craig pawson to be named referee

Edited by doublesuited77 (07 Dec 2017 5.24pm)

Any decent conspiracy theorist would say it was to keep a better eye on the fans.

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