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Quilliam foundation's findings.

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 17 Dec 17 8.46pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Why the poor old gusset comment?

I'm right,some people care more about the perpetrators being Muslim than they do about the crime, otherwise there would be multiple threads about paedophile rings as there is for grooming gangs.

I guess it's because stuff like this makes them feel justified in their anti mass immigration stance.

Along with the terrorism, organised crime, street crime, bonkers religious practices, female oppression, stagnated wages, housing shortages, terrible music and endless bleating and identity politics.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 17 Dec 17 9.00pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I guess it's because stuff like this makes them feel justified in their anti mass immigration stance.

Along with the terrorism, organised crime, street crime, bonkers religious practices, female oppression, stagnated wages, housing shortages, terrible music and endless bleating and identity politics.


You could be describing pretty much any city, goes on everywhere. Must be a fact of life.
It's not just a Muslim thing.

Just out of interest, where do you live?


 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 17 Dec 17 9.19pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset


You could be describing pretty much any city, goes on everywhere. Must be a fact of life.
It's not just a Muslim thing.

Just out of interest, where do you live?



You are obsessed with Muslims.

I live a long way from Tooting where you are.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (17 Dec 2017 9.20pm)

 

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View danny choo choo's Profile danny choo choo Flag hayes 17 Dec 17 10.43pm Send a Private Message to danny choo choo Add danny choo choo as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Problem is, that a lot of your posts seem always to be about Muslims this, Muslims that. Nick isn't saying that there isn't a problem, or that grooming gangs aren't an issue - but that by making it always about Muslims, you're perpetuating an agenda over reality by making generalisations based on a minority - That you have avoided where those generalistations wouldn't fit your agenda.

Hence you focus on type 1, because it fits an agenda, and ignoring the details of type 2, because it doesn't - Even though this was evidence in the very first link on the thread.

go on say just say it you think I'm an islamaphobic racsist dont you?
didnt realise there was subjects im not allowed to post about? i cant seem to find the pinned post where it says no multi posting about certain subjects!


 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 17 Dec 17 10.59pm

Originally posted by danny choo choo

go on say just say it you think I'm an islamaphobic racsist dont you?
didnt realise there was subjects im not allowed to post about? i cant seem to find the pinned post where it says no multi posting about certain subjects!


No, I don't. I don't know you or what you believe, only that this is a subject that you're drawn to, and have strong feelings about (notably the relationship between Muslims, terrorism and child grooming). I think its easy for people to become fixated on aspects of situations, because of their personal feelings, without them being an 'ist' of some description.

 


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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Online Flag Chatham 18 Dec 17 6.04am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

No, I don't. I don't know you or what you believe, only that this is a subject that you're drawn to, and have strong feelings about (notably the relationship between Muslims, terrorism and child grooming). I think its easy for people to become fixated on aspects of situations, because of their personal feelings, without them being an 'ist' of some description.

The link between Muslims and terrorists.
Hang on is it not the case.
NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS
BUT MOST TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIM
How can there not be a relationship
And don't come back with the bit about right wing terrorists
It's not as off the scale as Muslim terrorists
FFS they are blowing each other up daily in the middle East and the like.
Not in Surrey Sussex or east Anglia

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 18 Dec 17 7.44am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Society is full of hypocrisy and applies different rules to its different defined 'protected' classes and non protected classes.

It's up to its neck in it.

Let's compare these 'progressive' attitudes on protecting their 'special' Islamic class and compare it using a football analogy.

If the fans of a football club are violent or cause disruption then what does the FA do? Do they say....well, they may be fans of that club but the club hold no responsibility for their behaviour because they don't approve of it......Nope....they say to the club....take action against these fans or we will take action against you....If it happens again, we hold you responsible....They connect the fans with the club they support.

But despite Islam in this country having views and attitudes that allow these terrorists to have enclaves of silence and even support.....apparently we are told that the religion here doesn't need to change.

The socially conservative doctrines of Islam do need to change here.......and all those that stand against this on both the left and right are in part responsible for all the unrest and no doubt far more violence that later generations will endure.

Because this problem wasn't dealt with when the Islamic population was far smaller here....the fallout is going to be far worst down the line. I am bitter about it because my kids will have to be apart of that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Dec 2017 7.46am)

 

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 18 Dec 17 8.10am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

^^^^

The more important aspect is not so much the 'need to change' as anyone can say that the bleedin' obvious over and over but 'how it changes?' Answer that within a pragmatic framework then at least progressive liberal Muslims will have something to work with.

We need more housing, we need less zero hours contracts, etc. We also needs solutions not hot air.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 18 Dec 17 8.51am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

^^^^

The more important aspect is not so much the 'need to change' as anyone can say that the bleedin' obvious over and over but 'how it changes?' Answer that within a pragmatic framework then at least progressive liberal Muslims will have something to work with.

We need more housing, we need less zero hours contracts, etc. We also needs solutions not hot air.

Seriously?

Perhaps you actually need to start listening to reformers instead of criticising them when you don't even know what they are saying.....jeepers.

I've previously written my solutions multiple times on here....If you are genuinely interested start listening to actual Islamic reformers.

I don't believe you are interested in solutions.....as you said Islam will evolve in its own time.....you argue for keeping the status quo.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Dec 2017 8.53am)

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 18 Dec 17 9.46am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Society is full of hypocrisy and applies different rules to its different defined 'protected' classes and non protected classes.

It's up to its neck in it.

Let's compare these 'progressive' attitudes on protecting their 'special' Islamic class and compare it using a football analogy.

If the fans of a football club are violent or cause disruption then what does the FA do? Do they say....well, they may be fans of that club but the club hold no responsibility for their behaviour because they don't approve of it......Nope....they say to the club....take action against these fans or we will take action against you....If it happens again, we hold you responsible....They connect the fans with the club they support.

But despite Islam in this country having views and attitudes that allow these terrorists to have enclaves of silence and even support.....apparently we are told that the religion here doesn't need to change.

The socially conservative doctrines of Islam do need to change here.......and all those that stand against this on both the left and right are in part responsible for all the unrest and no doubt far more violence that later generations will endure.

Because this problem wasn't dealt with when the Islamic population was far smaller here....the fallout is going to be far worst down the line. I am bitter about it because my kids will have to be apart of that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Dec 2017 7.46am)

Oddly, I do find myself more aligned to your stance than it seems. I support the idea of reformists in Islam, and promoting moderates (such as Ishmali Islam) and focusing on protecting those abroad and promoting them in the UK (as well as showing preference in terms of migration).

But we also need to reform how we deal with Islam abroad as well. Its easy to say promote moderate Islam, but then if you go and sell a s**t tonne of weapons to Saudi Arabia and buying their oil.

 


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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 18 Dec 17 9.52am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Seriously?

Perhaps you actually need to start listening to reformers instead of criticising them when you don't even know what they are saying.....jeepers.

I've previously written my solutions multiple times on here....If you are genuinely interested start listening to actual Islamic reformers.

I don't believe you are interested in solutions.....as you said Islam will evolve in its own time.....you argue for keeping the status quo.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Dec 2017 8.53am)

Obviously not clear enough nor coherent enough. They must have got lost within that tunnel of hot air. Try bullet points.


And you must have missed my numerous posts on proscribing Wahhabism and my wish for the refusal of building of more Saudi-funded mosques in the UK, then? Oh no, wait. You didn't. You replied. You just shuffled around that one with some waffle about keeping Saudi onside and how IS despise them too. Great reform action that. Pandering to extreme social conservatism within Islam and at the same time as saying how it needs to rooted out. How does that work for you?

Edited by Kermit8 (18 Dec 2017 10.38am)

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 18 Dec 17 10.53am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Oddly, I do find myself more aligned to your stance than it seems. I support the idea of reformists in Islam, and promoting moderates (such as Ishmali Islam) and focusing on protecting those abroad and promoting them in the UK (as well as showing preference in terms of migration).

But we also need to reform how we deal with Islam abroad as well. Its easy to say promote moderate Islam, but then if you go and sell a s**t tonne of weapons to Saudi Arabia and buying their oil.

Personally I feel that if the movements against integration within Islam can be unpicked then that community can join its other Asian counterparts in enjoying high levels of success within societies....not just this one but in general.

Or perhaps I'm conflating the word Asian there with other different Asian cultures that are really only connected by the Asian word.....but we can only wish people well.

Our relationship with the house of Saud is one of expediency on both sides. They are extremists compared to us....but they are western facing and frankly I see more movement for change there than I do in say....China.

But yes.....The Saudis aren't our friends....They are responsible for their brand of Sunni crap that we have to deal with....though make no mistake, in the UK it's doctrines from pakistan and Bangladesh that are the main issues here.

The situation there is an 'enemy of our enemy' situation.......I'm not sure the west not backing sides in the middle east is a good strategy.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Dec 2017 10.54am)

 

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