Batshuayi for Benteke?

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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 24 Jan 18 3.03pm
Originally posted by mattteo 10 m to us? More like 20 million to them. Benteke's value is around 20 million at this point. Batshuayi's is at more than 30, probably 40. Borussia Dortmund and Sevilla would gladly pay 30 million for him if Chelsea was willing to sell, they've been monitoring the situation. On the other hand, I don't see many clubs lining up to pay even 20 million for Benteke if Palace said he was available. There are also 3 years between Benteke and Batshuayi, you can't expect the Chelsea man to be cheaper I just have a feeling Chelsea would like a happy Benteke, who's willing to play from the bench and give them something different, than an unhappy Batshuayi who they're a bit disappointed in (rightly or wrongly). And who isn't giving them much different to Morata. We are reasonably happy to keep Benteke though, and what he brings. So the demand in this transaction may be one-sided, I reckon. Which is why I think your valuation is out (regardless of market prices). And with the Chinese spending in the game, 20m for Benteke is just too low. He's assisting quite nicely now, and there's every chance he'll hit a vein of scoring form. If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.
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Ginger Pubic Wig

Wickham de L'Ouest 24 Jan 18 3.03pm

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Originally posted by mattteo

10 m to us? More like 20 million to them. Benteke's value is around 20 million at this point. Batshuayi's is at more than 30, probably 40. Borussia Dortmund and Sevilla would gladly pay 30 million for him if Chelsea was willing to sell, they've been monitoring the situation. On the other hand, I don't see many clubs lining up to pay even 20 million for Benteke if Palace said he was available.
There are also 3 years between Benteke and Batshuayi, you can't expect the Chelsea man to be cheaper

I just have a feeling Chelsea would like a happy Benteke, who's willing to play from the bench and give them something different, than an unhappy Batshuayi who they're a bit disappointed in (rightly or wrongly). And who isn't giving them much different to Morata.

We are reasonably happy to keep Benteke though, and what he brings. So the demand in this transaction may be one-sided, I reckon. Which is why I think your valuation is out (regardless of market prices).

And with the Chinese spending in the game, 20m for Benteke is just too low. He's assisting quite nicely now, and there's every chance he'll hit a vein of scoring form.

If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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Belgian Eagle Antwerp 24 Jan 18 4.47pm
Whilst I agree Benteke is performing way below par (at least in terms of end product), we can't deny that he's still an important part of our current team, which is now consistently picking up points. I think it would be a huge gamble to offload Benteke and replace him with an (let's face it) unproven striker like Batshuayi, even though the latter is probably more talented.
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Belgian Eagle

Antwerp 24 Jan 18 4.47pm

Whilst I agree Benteke is performing way below par (at least in terms of end product), we can't deny that he's still an important part of our current team, which is now consistently picking up points.

I think it would be a huge gamble to offload Benteke and replace him with an (let's face it) unproven striker like Batshuayi, even though the latter is probably more talented.

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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 24 Jan 18 5.14pm
Originally posted by Belgian Eagle Whilst I agree Benteke is performing way below par (at least in terms of end product), we can't deny that he's still an important part of our current team, which is now consistently picking up points. I think it would be a huge gamble to offload Benteke and replace him with an (let's face it) unproven striker like Batshuayi, even though the latter is probably more talented. Which is why, if Chelsea wanted it to happen, the net flow of cash would need to be from them to us. And a reasonable dollop of the stuff. But it aint THAT much of a gamble. I think Batshuayi brings better mobility and defending from the front, he's probably similar in terms of goal scoring/assisting, and with games I think he'd catch up in terms of hold up play. Which is a vital component for a club like us, and the main worry of swapping. If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.
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Ginger Pubic Wig

Wickham de L'Ouest 24 Jan 18 5.14pm

Originally posted by Belgian Eagle

I think it would be a huge gamble to offload Benteke and replace him with an (let's face it) unproven striker like Batshuayi, even though the latter is probably more talented.

Which is why, if Chelsea wanted it to happen, the net flow of cash would need to be from them to us. And a reasonable dollop of the stuff.

But it aint THAT much of a gamble. I think Batshuayi brings better mobility and defending from the front, he's probably similar in terms of goal scoring/assisting, and with games I think he'd catch up in terms of hold up play. Which is a vital component for a club like us, and the main worry of swapping.

If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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dynamicdick Dormansland 24 Jan 18 5.37pm
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig I just have a feeling Chelsea would like a happy Benteke, who's willing to play from the bench and give them something different, than an unhappy Batshuayi who they're a bit disappointed in (rightly or wrongly). And who isn't giving them much different to Morata. We are reasonably happy to keep Benteke though, and what he brings. So the demand in this transaction may be one-sided, I reckon. Which is why I think your valuation is out (regardless of market prices). And with the Chinese spending in the game, 20m for Benteke is just too low. He's assisting quite nicely now, and there's every chance he'll hit a vein of scoring form. A large pink pig has for some unknown reason just flown over East Grinstead! Bring back Brolin
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dynamicdick

Dormansland 24 Jan 18 5.37pm

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

And with the Chinese spending in the game, 20m for Benteke is just too low. He's assisting quite nicely now, and there's every chance he'll hit a vein of scoring form.

A large pink pig has for some unknown reason just flown
over East Grinstead!

Bring back Brolin

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Goldfiinger Just down the road 24 Jan 18 5.39pm
Benteke plus �10m for Batshuay and RLC. Ohhh that would tempt us right?
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Goldfiinger

Just down the road 24 Jan 18 5.39pm

Benteke plus �10m for Batshuay and RLC.

Ohhh that would tempt us right?

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dp Tunbridge Wells 24 Jan 18 6.15pm
I like Benteke, I tend to agree that he will come good - but I would take that deal.
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Tunbridge Wells 24 Jan 18 6.15pm

I like Benteke, I tend to agree that he will come good - but I would take that deal.

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Icepick Tony Chester 24 Jan 18 7.32pm
Originally posted by mattteo If Benteke is better at hold-up play can only be assessed by a more qualified eye than you or I or even Ray Wilkins. It's subjective. It's not quantifiable, like how many goals they scored. Some people at Chelsea thought Batshuayi is better than Benteke 1 year ago when they decided to pay 30 million for him and not Benteke. Others at Liverpool thought Benteke is better at holding the ball and building up attacks a few years back and gambled on him. You see something more in Benteke, I see something more in Batshuayi. It's subjective. I can't really see much building up play at Benteke after seeing the back heel pass and build-up to the Brighton goal that Batsuayi made with Hazard and Willian. I mean, when has Benteke offered a build-up for a goal with his foot? Ever? His only good passes for team mates come from head deviations. Why would his hold-up of the ball contribution be considered so good if he never set up his team mates for dangerous situations with his feet? And on the subject of the team letting Benteke down.....I think Zaha and Townsend are really good assisters, PVA is a great crosser. He has players to work with, better than in 7-8 other PL teams. He has let himself down The key to that is we still struggle to play the ball up the field through midfield. We are getting better but still away off. Those flicks Chelsea were doing most of the 1st half till Brighton started to get some grip on the game. Like I said before, it's easy when you have players around you capable of that and Willian and Hazard are very very capable players. We're comparing two different players for 2 very different teams. Regarding PVA, he's not really had much look in since Roy and he overlap has hardly been there. Whether he can cross or not is irrelevant if he hasn't played. We have pretty much relied on Zaha and Townsend to create this season and whilst Benteke should have scored more its not like he hasn't contributed. "They got his own song 'He's just too good for you', it's quite unbelievable but when you see it and he's facing up someone - I actually feel sorry for them, 'Cos he actually is" - Ian Holloway
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Icepick Tony

Chester 24 Jan 18 7.32pm

Originally posted by mattteo

If Benteke is better at hold-up play can only be assessed by a more qualified eye than you or I or even Ray Wilkins. It's subjective. It's not quantifiable, like how many goals they scored. Some people at Chelsea thought Batshuayi is better than Benteke 1 year ago when they decided to pay 30 million for him and not Benteke. Others at Liverpool thought Benteke is better at holding the ball and building up attacks a few years back and gambled on him.

You see something more in Benteke, I see something more in Batshuayi. It's subjective.
I can't really see much building up play at Benteke after seeing the back heel pass and build-up to the Brighton goal that Batsuayi made with Hazard and Willian. I mean, when has Benteke offered a build-up for a goal with his foot? Ever? His only good passes for team mates come from head deviations. Why would his hold-up of the ball contribution be considered so good if he never set up his team mates for dangerous situations with his feet?

And on the subject of the team letting Benteke down.....I think Zaha and Townsend are really good assisters, PVA is a great crosser. He has players to work with, better than in 7-8 other PL teams. He has let himself down

The key to that is we still struggle to play the ball up the field through midfield. We are getting better but still away off. Those flicks Chelsea were doing most of the 1st half till Brighton started to get some grip on the game. Like I said before, it's easy when you have players around you capable of that and Willian and Hazard are very very capable players. We're comparing two different players for 2 very different teams.

Regarding PVA, he's not really had much look in since Roy and he overlap has hardly been there. Whether he can cross or not is irrelevant if he hasn't played. We have pretty much relied on Zaha and Townsend to create this season and whilst Benteke should have scored more its not like he hasn't contributed.

"They got his own song 'He's just too good for you', it's quite unbelievable but when you see it and he's facing up someone - I actually feel sorry for them, 'Cos he actually is" - Ian Holloway

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Nobbybm Dartford 25 Jan 18 8.23am
Originally posted by mattteo You see- this is what I have a problem with. Tricking football. When you take a gazzillion penalties for your team, you'll surely hit double figures. Doesn't mean you'd have hit those figures if you weren't the designed penalty taker. Let's have all strikers as penalty takers and then say that Benteke hit double figures and others didn't! Without taking penalties, he'd have: 16 goals in the 12/13 season 7 goals in the 13/14 season 10 goals in the 14/15 season 8 goals in the 15/16 season 13 goals in the 16/17 season 1 in half the 17/18 season Total playing time: 13.500 minutes. 1 goals every 250 minutes. Even in Liverpool it was 1 goals every 200 minutes, cause he scored 8 and played 1500 minutes. Compare that to Batshuayi's 10 in 1000 mins just this season. Edited by mattteo (23 Jan 2018 8.21pm) So what? In most seasons he was playing in a side that was struggling for form, chances & goals other than the one at Liverpool where they did (& still do) create loads. You keep posting reams of irrelevant, fallible statistics - players are actually human, the team/environment/situations/opposition they play in/against varies so extremely that it's a pointless argument. Look at Kelechi Iheanacho - at City he had the best minutes per goal ratio in the EPL but that's all changed since his move. Is he suddenly an awful player? Edit: Just looked at the 'gazillion' penalties he's taken. they total 17 since 2010 - scored 10, missed 7. Edited by Nobbybm (25 Jan 2018 8.30am) Will this be five? It's gonna be five! It IS five!
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Nobbybm

Dartford 25 Jan 18 8.23am

Originally posted by mattteo

You see- this is what I have a problem with. Tricking football. When you take a gazzillion penalties for your team, you'll surely hit double figures. Doesn't mean you'd have hit those figures if you weren't the designed penalty taker. Let's have all strikers as penalty takers and then say that Benteke hit double figures and others didn't!

Without taking penalties, he'd have:
16 goals in the 12/13 season
7 goals in the 13/14 season
10 goals in the 14/15 season
8 goals in the 15/16 season
13 goals in the 16/17 season
1 in half the 17/18 season

Total playing time: 13.500 minutes.
1 goals every 250 minutes. Even in Liverpool it was 1 goals every 200 minutes, cause he scored 8 and played 1500 minutes.
Compare that to Batshuayi's 10 in 1000 mins just this season.

Edited by mattteo (23 Jan 2018 8.21pm)

So what? In most seasons he was playing in a side that was struggling for form, chances & goals other than the one at Liverpool where they did (& still do) create loads.

You keep posting reams of irrelevant, fallible statistics - players are actually human, the team/environment/situations/opposition they play in/against varies so extremely that it's a pointless argument.

Look at Kelechi Iheanacho - at City he had the best minutes per goal ratio in the EPL but that's all changed since his move. Is he suddenly an awful player?

Edit: Just looked at the 'gazillion' penalties he's taken. they total 17 since 2010 - scored 10, missed 7.

Edited by Nobbybm (25 Jan 2018 8.30am)

Will this be five? It's gonna be five! It IS five!

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Username Horsham 25 Jan 18 8.33am
Originally posted by mattteo If Benteke is better at hold-up play can only be assessed by a more qualified eye than you or I or even Ray Wilkins. It's subjective. It's not quantifiable, like how many goals they scored. Some people at Chelsea thought Batshuayi is better than Benteke 1 year ago when they decided to pay 30 million for him and not Benteke. Others at Liverpool thought Benteke is better at holding the ball and building up attacks a few years back and gambled on him. You see something more in Benteke, I see something more in Batshuayi. It's subjective. I can't really see much building up play at Benteke after seeing the back heel pass and build-up to the Brighton goal that Batsuayi made with Hazard and Willian. I mean, when has Benteke offered a build-up for a goal with his foot? Ever? His only good passes for team mates come from head deviations. Why would his hold-up of the ball contribution be considered so good if he never set up his team mates for dangerous situations with his feet? And on the subject of the team letting Benteke down.....I think Zaha and Townsend are really good assisters, PVA is a great crosser. He has players to work with, better than in 7-8 other PL teams. He has let himself down Leicester and Burnley. He also played in Wilf for the second penalty against Bournemouth. PVA getting back into the side should help him, but he has been missing for most of the year so far. Townsend has been way below his form from last year for most of this season. Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time.
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Horsham 25 Jan 18 8.33am

Originally posted by mattteo

You see something more in Benteke, I see something more in Batshuayi. It's subjective.
I can't really see much building up play at Benteke after seeing the back heel pass and build-up to the Brighton goal that Batsuayi made with Hazard and Willian. I mean, when has Benteke offered a build-up for a goal with his foot? Ever? His only good passes for team mates come from head deviations. Why would his hold-up of the ball contribution be considered so good if he never set up his team mates for dangerous situations with his feet?

And on the subject of the team letting Benteke down.....I think Zaha and Townsend are really good assisters, PVA is a great crosser. He has players to work with, better than in 7-8 other PL teams. He has let himself down

Leicester and Burnley. He also played in Wilf for the second penalty against Bournemouth.

PVA getting back into the side should help him, but he has been missing for most of the year so far. Townsend has been way below his form from last year for most of this season.

Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time.

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taylors lovechild 25 Jan 18 9.33am
A key tactic this season has been for Wilf to drive into the box and then cut it back. We do not seem to put many aerial crosses into the box like we did last season, which I don't think is helping the big man. When he goes through one on one you can sense his lack of confidence, which I really hope he can overcome. I actually think some healthy competition for his place might focus and improve his performances.
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taylors lovechild

25 Jan 18 9.33am

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A key tactic this season has been for Wilf to drive into the box and then cut it back. We do not seem to put many aerial crosses into the box like we did last season, which I don't think is helping the big man. When he goes through one on one you can sense his lack of confidence, which I really hope he can overcome. I actually think some healthy competition for his place might focus and improve his performances.

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Username Horsham 25 Jan 18 10.44am
Originally posted by taylors lovechild A key tactic this season has been for Wilf to drive into the box and then cut it back. We do not seem to put many aerial crosses into the box like we did last season, which I don't think is helping the big man. When he goes through one on one you can sense his lack of confidence, which I really hope he can overcome. I actually think some healthy competition for his place might focus and improve his performances. I think that's where Townsend's drop in form is more notable. Completely agree with this. It's a mix of a lack of confidence and the team not playing to his strengths in the same way they did last year. Some competition and the chance to have a break from starting would probably do him the world of good. Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time.
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Horsham 25 Jan 18 10.44am

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

A key tactic this season has been for Wilf to drive into the box and then cut it back. We do not seem to put many aerial crosses into the box like we did last season, which I don't think is helping the big man. When he goes through one on one you can sense his lack of confidence, which I really hope he can overcome. I actually think some healthy competition for his place might focus and improve his performances.

I think that's where Townsend's drop in form is more notable.

Completely agree with this. It's a mix of a lack of confidence and the team not playing to his strengths in the same way they did last year.

Some competition and the chance to have a break from starting would probably do him the world of good.

Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time.

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silvertop Portishead 25 Jan 18 12.09pm
Eder is being pursued to bring out the best in Benteke. He is potentially the missing piece of our attack puzzle. Fingers crossed. Batshuayi - if he can't succeed at Chelsea where he is stuffed with supply, what chance success at a club where he will be feeding off scraps? Those who genuinely think he is a step up from Benteke are misguided.
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silvertop

Portishead 25 Jan 18 12.09pm

Eder is being pursued to bring out the best in Benteke. He is potentially the missing piece of our attack puzzle. Fingers crossed.

Batshuayi - if he can't succeed at Chelsea where he is stuffed with supply, what chance success at a club where he will be feeding off scraps?

Those who genuinely think he is a step up from Benteke are misguided.

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