Trump and the Iran deal

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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 11 May 18 7.39am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays So does the Islamic one....and it's meant to be the same god.....perhaps because it's all a load of sweet fanny adams. I don't think most Jews are that religious, they have group identity instead. First point - 100% :-) Second point - hmmm, thought-provoking. Guess it depends on which group of jewish people you come across.....and perhaps the same principle can be applied to muslims as well? Every religion has its zealots and ultra-orthodox sects. Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 11 May 18 7.39am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

So does the Islamic one....and it's meant to be the same god.....perhaps because it's all a load of sweet fanny adams.

I don't think most Jews are that religious, they have group identity instead.

First point - 100% :-)

Second point - hmmm, thought-provoking. Guess it depends on which group of jewish people you come across.....and perhaps the same principle can be applied to muslims as well? Every religion has its zealots and ultra-orthodox sects.

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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Stirlingsays 11 May 18 9.45am
Originally posted by Mr_Gristle First point - 100% :-) Second point - hmmm, thought-provoking. Guess it depends on which group of jewish people you come across.....and perhaps the same principle can be applied to muslims as well? Every religion has its zealots and ultra-orthodox sects. Referring to your second paragraph. It all comes down to percentages. So for example, you can test the principle by looking at statistical evidence such as Pew data. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

11 May 18 9.45am

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

First point - 100% :-)

Referring to your second paragraph. It all comes down to percentages. So for example, you can test the principle by looking at statistical evidence such as Pew data.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Penge Eagle Beckenham 11 May 18 11.13pm
I wondered why the UK, France and Germany were all desperate for the Iran deal to stay in place. Pleading with Trump not to rip it up, in the media the leaders appeared as if they were the sane ones trying to hold back the reckless, wild dog that is Trump. So I did some further reading, which you must do in the age of fake news. And lo and behold, it all comes down to money! May, Macron and Merkel don't care about Iran destabilising the region or obtaining a nuclear weapon in eight years as they will be out of office by then and not their problem. The EU was Iran�s largest trade partner before the sanctions, French oil company Total had signed a 5bn dollar energy deal with Iran, while French-based Airbus agreed to sell 100 planes to Iran, etc the list goes on. What a surprise that European leaders care more about money than world security... But reading the media, you'd think Trump was the unethical guy in all of this! Edited by Penge Eagle (11 May 2018 11.15pm)
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Penge Eagle

Beckenham 11 May 18 11.13pm

I wondered why the UK, France and Germany were all desperate for the Iran deal to stay in place. Pleading with Trump not to rip it up, in the media the leaders appeared as if they were the sane ones trying to hold back the reckless, wild dog that is Trump. So I did some further reading, which you must do in the age of fake news. And lo and behold, it all comes down to money!

May, Macron and Merkel don't care about Iran destabilising the region or obtaining a nuclear weapon in eight years as they will be out of office by then and not their problem.

The EU was Iran�s largest trade partner before the sanctions, French oil company Total had signed a 5bn dollar energy deal with Iran, while French-based Airbus agreed to sell 100 planes to Iran, etc the list goes on.

What a surprise that European leaders care more about money than world security... But reading the media, you'd think Trump was the unethical guy in all of this!

Edited by Penge Eagle (11 May 2018 11.15pm)

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Stirlingsays 12 May 18 12.44am
Originally posted by Penge Eagle I wondered why the UK, France and Germany were all desperate for the Iran deal to stay in place. Pleading with Trump not to rip it up, in the media the leaders appeared as if they were the sane ones trying to hold back the reckless, wild dog that is Trump. So I did some further reading, which you must do in the age of fake news. And lo and behold, it all comes down to money! May, Macron and Merkel don't care about Iran destabilising the region or obtaining a nuclear weapon in eight years as they will be out of office by then and not their problem. The EU was Iran�s largest trade partner before the sanctions, French oil company Total had signed a 5bn dollar energy deal with Iran, while French-based Airbus agreed to sell 100 planes to Iran, etc the list goes on. What a surprise that European leaders care more about money than world security... But reading the media, you'd think Trump was the unethical guy in all of this! Edited by Penge Eagle (11 May 2018 11.15pm) Pretty much, I mean I have little doubt that Trump is also paying back his own interests.. However, I think he's a bit more honest about it. I mean if America's interest is aligned to Israel's then damaging Iran's economy and stopping its military base foothold in Syria is pretty important. It's pretty evident that when you look at the history of our own country and indeed that of others you come to realise that many political decisions are taken on short term basis. Many politicians kick cans down the line....they aren't here for the long term good. If they can avoid difficult consequences they will do....regardless if it makes the situation worse for the country down the line....there's always an excuse to hide behind. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 May 2018 12.48am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

12 May 18 12.44am

Originally posted by Penge Eagle

May, Macron and Merkel don't care about Iran destabilising the region or obtaining a nuclear weapon in eight years as they will be out of office by then and not their problem.

What a surprise that European leaders care more about money than world security... But reading the media, you'd think Trump was the unethical guy in all of this!

Edited by Penge Eagle (11 May 2018 11.15pm)

Pretty much, I mean I have little doubt that Trump is also paying back his own interests.. However, I think he's a bit more honest about it. I mean if America's interest is aligned to Israel's then damaging Iran's economy and stopping its military base foothold in Syria is pretty important.

It's pretty evident that when you look at the history of our own country and indeed that of others you come to realise that many political decisions are taken on short term basis.

Many politicians kick cans down the line....they aren't here for the long term good. If they can avoid difficult consequences they will do....regardless if it makes the situation worse for the country down the line....there's always an excuse to hide behind.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 May 2018 12.48am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Badger11 Beckenham 12 May 18 11.23am
Originally posted by Penge Eagle I wondered why the UK, France and Germany were all desperate for the Iran deal to stay in place. Pleading with Trump not to rip it up, in the media the leaders appeared as if they were the sane ones trying to hold back the reckless, wild dog that is Trump. So I did some further reading, which you must do in the age of fake news. And lo and behold, it all comes down to money! May, Macron and Merkel don't care about Iran destabilising the region or obtaining a nuclear weapon in eight years as they will be out of office by then and not their problem. The EU was Iran�s largest trade partner before the sanctions, French oil company Total had signed a 5bn dollar energy deal with Iran, while French-based Airbus agreed to sell 100 planes to Iran, etc the list goes on. What a surprise that European leaders care more about money than world security... But reading the media, you'd think Trump was the unethical guy in all of this! Edited by Penge Eagle (11 May 2018 11.15pm) Politicians always dress up self / national interest with morality. Why haven't we invaded China or Russia? Because we would probably lose yet they are guilty of appalling human rights abuse as are the Saudis etc. Just a thought on Trump is he doing the equivalent of the guy in pub who tells his mates "hold me back lads". Has he said to the EU I will play bad cop you play the voice of reason with Iran and try and talk them into changing the deal? Just a thought. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 12 May 18 11.23am

Originally posted by Penge Eagle

May, Macron and Merkel don't care about Iran destabilising the region or obtaining a nuclear weapon in eight years as they will be out of office by then and not their problem.

What a surprise that European leaders care more about money than world security... But reading the media, you'd think Trump was the unethical guy in all of this!

Edited by Penge Eagle (11 May 2018 11.15pm)

Politicians always dress up self / national interest with morality. Why haven't we invaded China or Russia? Because we would probably lose yet they are guilty of appalling human rights abuse as are the Saudis etc.

Just a thought on Trump is he doing the equivalent of the guy in pub who tells his mates "hold me back lads". Has he said to the EU I will play bad cop you play the voice of reason with Iran and try and talk them into changing the deal? Just a thought.

One more point

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pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 12 May 18 7.25pm
Originally posted by Penge Eagle I wondered why the UK, France and Germany were all desperate for the Iran deal to stay in place. Pleading with Trump not to rip it up, in the media the leaders appeared as if they were the sane ones trying to hold back the reckless, wild dog that is Trump. So I did some further reading, which you must do in the age of fake news. And lo and behold, it all comes down to money! May, Macron and Merkel don't care about Iran destabilising the region or obtaining a nuclear weapon in eight years as they will be out of office by then and not their problem. The EU was Iran�s largest trade partner before the sanctions, French oil company Total had signed a 5bn dollar energy deal with Iran, while French-based Airbus agreed to sell 100 planes to Iran, etc the list goes on. What a surprise that European leaders care more about money than world security... But reading the media, you'd think Trump was the unethical guy in all of this! Edited by Penge Eagle (11 May 2018 11.15pm) Penge, You drunk the Kool-aid over there? Why shouldn't our right wing Government look after UK's benefit rather than the US'. This why we are better aligned to our European allies than the USA. After all, this about creating and unwinding legacy vis a vis Iran and the DPRK. "Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."
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pefwin

Where you have to have an English ... 12 May 18 7.25pm

Originally posted by Penge Eagle

May, Macron and Merkel don't care about Iran destabilising the region or obtaining a nuclear weapon in eight years as they will be out of office by then and not their problem.

What a surprise that European leaders care more about money than world security... But reading the media, you'd think Trump was the unethical guy in all of this!

Edited by Penge Eagle (11 May 2018 11.15pm)

Penge,

You drunk the Kool-aid over there?

Why shouldn't our right wing Government look after UK's benefit rather than the US'. This why we are better aligned to our European allies than the USA.

After all, this about creating and unwinding legacy vis a vis Iran and the DPRK.

"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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Penge Eagle Beckenham 14 May 18 1.42am
The UK govt is right wing? Really? Anyway, both Labour and Tories have done dodgy deals with foreign states. A Downing Street spokesman said: "[Mrs May said] it is in both the UK and Iran's national security interests to maintain the deal." That's a lie. It should read "business interests". Just be honest with the people. It's actually in the UK's security interests to ensure Iran are weakened because they have nothing but bad intentions and have lied about their nuclear ambitions. Theresa May and Boris Johnson don't care that Iran have used Western money to increase their military, build rockets for nukes and continue to be the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Their successors can deal with the problem and any potential British soldiers lives lost if it kicks off in the Middle East or Iran getting a nuke that starts a nuclear arms race in the region. Don't let your anti-American sentiment get in the way of reality peffers! Edited by Penge Eagle (14 May 2018 1.44am)
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Penge Eagle

Beckenham 14 May 18 1.42am

The UK govt is right wing? Really? Anyway, both Labour and Tories have done dodgy deals with foreign states.

A Downing Street spokesman said: "[Mrs May said] it is in both the UK and Iran's national security interests to maintain the deal."

That's a lie. It should read "business interests". Just be honest with the people. It's actually in the UK's security interests to ensure Iran are weakened because they have nothing but bad intentions and have lied about their nuclear ambitions.

Theresa May and Boris Johnson don't care that Iran have used Western money to increase their military, build rockets for nukes and continue to be the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Their successors can deal with the problem and any potential British soldiers lives lost if it kicks off in the Middle East or Iran getting a nuke that starts a nuclear arms race in the region.

Don't let your anti-American sentiment get in the way of reality peffers!

Edited by Penge Eagle (14 May 2018 1.44am)

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Stirlingsays 14 May 18 2.50am
Originally posted by pefwin Penge, You drunk the Kool-aid over there? Why shouldn't our right wing Government look after UK's benefit rather than the US'. This why we are better aligned to our European allies than the USA. After all, this about creating and unwinding legacy vis a vis Iran and the DPRK. Right wing???? Economically neo liberal for sure.....but right wing? You're having a laugh. It has right wing people within it but they hold none of the major decision maker positions.....The nearest you have is Boris Johnson, who is just about pro Brexit.... but this is the guy against the Iraq war and Syria....yeah some red in tooth and claw right winger he is. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 May 2018 2.54am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

14 May 18 2.50am

Originally posted by pefwin

Penge,

You drunk the Kool-aid over there?

Why shouldn't our right wing Government look after UK's benefit rather than the US'. This why we are better aligned to our European allies than the USA.

After all, this about creating and unwinding legacy vis a vis Iran and the DPRK.

Right wing????

Economically neo liberal for sure.....but right wing? You're having a laugh.

It has right wing people within it but they hold none of the major decision maker positions.....The nearest you have is Boris Johnson, who is just about pro Brexit.... but this is the guy against the Iraq war and Syria....yeah some red in tooth and claw right winger he is.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 May 2018 2.54am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 14 May 18 12.41pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Right wing???? Economically neo liberal for sure.....but right wing? You're having a laugh. It has right wing people within it but they hold none of the major decision maker positions.....The nearest you have is Boris Johnson, who is just about pro Brexit.... but this is the guy against the Iraq war and Syria....yeah some red in tooth and claw right winger he is. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 May 2018 2.54am) Penge / Sterling, Calling the Tories Liberal is pretty "out there", Willo will be pleased. You conflate your perception of the ultra American right wing with "sensible" UK right wing policies. After all what would you call a UK right wing party? BTW, I am not anti-American, I've worked in US companies and advised companies on Wall Street and taken "experience" back from LA. One of the guys, I personally respect the most lives just outside NYC. Edited by pefwin (14 May 2018 12.41pm) "Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."
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pefwin

Where you have to have an English ... 14 May 18 12.41pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Right wing????

Economically neo liberal for sure.....but right wing? You're having a laugh.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 May 2018 2.54am)

Penge / Sterling,

Calling the Tories Liberal is pretty "out there", Willo will be pleased. You conflate your perception of the ultra American right wing with "sensible" UK right wing policies. After all what would you call a UK right wing party?

BTW, I am not anti-American, I've worked in US companies and advised companies on Wall Street and taken "experience" back from LA.

One of the guys, I personally respect the most lives just outside NYC.

Edited by pefwin (14 May 2018 12.41pm)

"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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Stirlingsays 14 May 18 4.47pm
Originally posted by pefwin Penge / Sterling, Calling the Tories Liberal is pretty "out there", Willo will be pleased. You conflate your perception of the ultra American right wing with "sensible" UK right wing policies. After all what would you call a UK right wing party? BTW, I am not anti-American, I've worked in US companies and advised companies on Wall Street and taken "experience" back from LA. One of the guys, I personally respect the most lives just outside NYC. Edited by pefwin (14 May 2018 12.41pm) The Tories are a right wing party via its members and grass roots. However, its leadership is far from right wing, other than economically. Tell me a right wing social policy that the Tories have? The party of Thatcher are a joke to call 'right wing' now.....unless someone is talking strictly about economics. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 May 2018 4.47pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

14 May 18 4.47pm

Originally posted by pefwin

Penge / Sterling,

BTW, I am not anti-American, I've worked in US companies and advised companies on Wall Street and taken "experience" back from LA.

One of the guys, I personally respect the most lives just outside NYC.

Edited by pefwin (14 May 2018 12.41pm)

The Tories are a right wing party via its members and grass roots.

However, its leadership is far from right wing, other than economically.

Tell me a right wing social policy that the Tories have?

The party of Thatcher are a joke to call 'right wing' now.....unless someone is talking strictly about economics.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 May 2018 4.47pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Dweeb East London 14 May 18 5.35pm
These maybe just some right wing ideas that "suggest" political dogma. I don't know, maybe: 1. privatising the NHS 2. increasing the number of faith schools 3. "Windrush" et al 4. non-Leverson 2 5. Henry VIIIth powers / The Great Reform Bill 6. having absolutely no idea what they are doing about how to get out of the EU 7. always turning to the private sector for the answer when more often than not they have never done it, or done it well... Maybe more. . . Oh and on Trump and Iran; he knows exactly what he is doing namely: reversing every Obama era thing he can; increasing profits of fossil fuel companies, destroying planet by way of pollution/global warming or war - he doesn't care in the first instance because it would be Barron who inherits it and in the second he won't care because there will be no records for him to call "fake" Edited by Dweeb (14 May 2018 5.40pm) Taking the bungy jump since 1964. Never to see John Jackson in a shirt again Sorry to see Lee Hills go, did we ever see Alex Marrow? We did January 2013
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Dweeb

East London 14 May 18 5.35pm

These maybe just some right wing ideas that "suggest" political dogma. I don't know, maybe:

1. privatising the NHS

2. increasing the number of faith schools

3. "Windrush" et al

4. non-Leverson 2

5. Henry VIIIth powers / The Great Reform Bill

6. having absolutely no idea what they are doing about how to get out of the EU

7. always turning to the private sector for the answer when more often than not they have never done it, or done it well...

Maybe more. . .

Oh and on Trump and Iran; he knows exactly what he is doing namely: reversing every Obama era thing he can; increasing profits of fossil fuel companies, destroying planet by way of pollution/global warming or war - he doesn't care in the first instance because it would be Barron who inherits it and in the second he won't care because there will be no records for him to call "fake"

Edited by Dweeb (14 May 2018 5.40pm)

Taking the bungy jump since 1964. Never to see John Jackson in a shirt again

Sorry to see Lee Hills go, did we ever see Alex Marrow? We did January 2013

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Stirlingsays 14 May 18 6.11pm
Originally posted by Dweeb These maybe just some right wing ideas that "suggest" political dogma. I don't know, maybe: 1. privatising the NHS An economic policy....see previous post. Also this is nothing that Labour haven't done themselves. Originally posted by Dweeb 2. increasing the number of faith schools I would agree that this is poor politics. I fail to see how it is 'right wing'. Originally posted by Dweeb 3. "Windrush" et al This particular government did nothing wrong over 'Windrush'. I regard the whole episode to be completely ridiculous. Originally posted by Dweeb 4. non-Leverson 2 Not really getting how defending free speech is 'right wing'.....well I suppose that it is now as the left have abandoned it for political correctness. Originally posted by Dweeb 5. Henry VIIIth powers / The Great Reform Bill A big waffle over nothing. Like most things from Labour. Nothing to do with being right wing at all. If there are any Henry V111 powers that need to be looked at I'm sure they will be....as Mogg said the other day. Originally posted by Dweeb 6. having absolutely no idea what they are doing about how to get out of the EU That's because too many of them are remainers. If they were more right wing and the leadership were made up of Pro-Brexit politicians this would have been settled already. Originally posted by Dweeb 7. always turning to the private sector for the answer when more often than not they have never done it, or done it well... Maybe more. . . This is economic....see previous post. Originally posted by Dweeb Oh and on Trump and Iran; he knows exactly what he is doing namely: reversing every Obama era thing he can; increasing profits of fossil fuel companies, destroying planet by way of pollution/global warming or war - he doesn't care in the first instance because it would be Barron who inherits it and in the second he won't care because there will be no records for him to call "fake" Edited by Dweeb (14 May 2018 5.40pm) Obama's Iran policy was short termist nonsense. So I have no issues with Trump's action here. The climate deal Trump pulled out of was a giant virtue signal that makes no difference to climate change at all. And if you have bought into nonsense if you think it has. The only country that had to commit to hurting itself economically was the US and Obama signed up to a bad deal. The rest of your points were just invective. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 May 2018 6.12pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

14 May 18 6.11pm