Tax rises needed 'to prevent NHS misery'
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 CambridgeEagle  Sydenham 24 May 18 9.13am |
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Originally posted by aquickgame2
The baby boomers have benefited from innumerable things no longer available to younger generations, wealth (largely held by older people) has continued to grow apace, yet incomes (largely earned by the younger) stagnate. Evidence shows that the baby boomers spent more relative to older generations than the young do now, yet the young are still relatively poorer and cost of living, especially housing, significantly higher. Having paid in is not an argument as everyone will do so, it's just a matter of timing. You can't use that as an excuse to pillage from future generations. The elderly don't have some sort of divine right to resources without the responsibility of replacing them.
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| .TUX. 24 May 18 9.17am |
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Originally posted by aquickgame2
I'm sure the majority have paid in for many many years but due to inflation (1300% since the 70's) they've not put anywhere near enough to cover their costs in later life though. This problem will never go away.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 24 May 18 9.20am |
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Originally posted by .TUX.
I'm sure the majority have paid in for many many years but due to inflation (1300% since the 70's) they've not put anywhere near enough to cover their costs in later life though. This problem will never go away. This is true. The problem is that the older generations seem to feel that, despite having accrued massive benefits from these awful policies, they should bear none of the cost now in rectifying the damage.
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| .TUX. 24 May 18 9.31am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Evidence doesn't support either of your claims. All evidence shows immigrants pay more in than they take out and are less likely to claim benefits or healthcare than people from the UK. They also provide a significant proportion of the NHS staff (my wife is French and is a doctor at Great Ormond Street Hospital dealing with children with traumatic brain injuries and othe neurological conditions such as brain cancer as an example). The NHS also "wastes" vastly less than they do in the US, and other systems which use insurance and require inordinate amounts spent on administration. The NHS has also managed to increase productivity by c1.2% pa, in line with it's long term trend, since the GFC, something the wider economy has failed to do. This is in spite of cuts to services and cuts to per patient budgets and investment in services. I'd suggest you think before you spout bigotry next time. Having spent the majority of April last year in hospital visiting the father-in-law (sadly passed) then i'd say 'foreigners' are certainly getting their monies worth regarding health treatment. The place was packed with all sorts of languages, English being around 20% from what i remember.
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aquickgame2  Beni = summer,Caribbean = winter 24 May 18 9.32am |
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They ( the different governments ) took out as much as they wanted during my working life,I had no choice as to what they wanted,where they allocated it. Now its my time to take as much as I can out of it..selfish,you bet I am.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 24 May 18 9.57am |
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Originally posted by aquickgame2
They ( the different governments ) took out as much as they wanted during my working life,I had no choice as to what they wanted,where they allocated it. Now its my time to take as much as I can out of it..selfish,you bet I am. The government is of the people. Their bungling benefited their own generation at the expense of their children and grandchildren. They aren't some sort of aliens who aren't themselves part of society. If they damage the country while benefiting themselves and their peers (who voted for them) it seems right that once this becomes apparent they should be responsible for repairing the damage. The Tories won't touch them though as they are their base. With the Tories in power the workers will not get a fair crack of the whip and will continue to see their wealth diminish relative to their parents and grandparents, who use age as an excuse to avoid any rightful liabilities. We're having to work now to plug the gaps in pension funds which we don't benefit from! They are all closed. We now have to work for our own pensions as well. So we're paying double to receive half.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 24 May 18 10.25am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Evidence doesn't support either of your claims. All evidence shows immigrants pay more in than they take out and are less likely to claim benefits or healthcare than people from the UK. They also provide a significant proportion of the NHS staff (my wife is French and is a doctor at Great Ormond Street Hospital dealing with children with traumatic brain injuries and othe neurological conditions such as brain cancer as an example). The NHS also "wastes" vastly less than they do in the US, and other systems which use insurance and require inordinate amounts spent on administration. The NHS has also managed to increase productivity by c1.2% pa, in line with it's long term trend, since the GFC, something the wider economy has failed to do. This is in spite of cuts to services and cuts to per patient budgets and investment in services. I'd suggest you think before you spout bigotry next time. How can you have contributed when you have just arrived? Hospitals are full of foreign workers because they can often earn more here than in their own countries where as many British workers were never offered enough pay or encouraged into training. More short sighted government policy. And I suggest that anyone calling someone a bigot while hiding being their laptop is a cowardly t***. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (24 May 2018 10.33am)
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| aquickgame2 Beni = summer,Caribbean = winter 24 May 18 10.29am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
The government is of the people. Their bungling benefited their own generation at the expense of their children and grandchildren. They aren't some sort of aliens who aren't themselves part of society. If they damage the country while benefiting themselves and their peers (who voted for them) it seems right that once this becomes apparent they should be responsible for repairing the damage. The Tories won't touch them though as they are their base. With the Tories in power the workers will not get a fair crack of the whip and will continue to see their wealth diminish relative to their parents and grandparents, who use age as an excuse to avoid any rightful liabilities. We're having to work now to plug the gaps in pension funds which we don't benefit from! They are all closed. We now have to work for our own pensions as well. So we're paying double to receive half. You and you.........I'm gonna milk it as much as I can,it's lovely being a selfish retired old fart.
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| topcat Holmesdale / Surbiton 24 May 18 10.47am |
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Originally posted by .TUX.
I'm sure the majority have paid in for many many years but due to inflation (1300% since the 70's) they've not put anywhere near enough to cover their costs in later life though. This problem will never go away. Indeed.
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses. |
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| Stirlingsays 24 May 18 10.50am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Evidence doesn't support either of your claims. All evidence shows immigrants pay more in than they take out and are less likely to claim benefits or healthcare than people from the UK. They also provide a significant proportion of the NHS staff (my wife is French and is a doctor at Great Ormond Street Hospital dealing with children with traumatic brain injuries and othe neurological conditions such as brain cancer as an example). Really? All evidence? This is simply untrue. I find that like your post on 'free speech' yesterday it's not the true picture. I would be interested in where you get this evidence for all immigrants. To get a net benefit you have to select only immigrants from a select number of countries, for example the EU or take from a set number of years and avoid the reality of older immigrants. When you stop cheery picking your evidence base the reality is that immigration to the UK costs the UK tax payer more than it brings in: Fact. Even when you account for the most positive spin. Immigrants get old too and it's a ponzi scheme which is impossible to sustain and anyone with more common sense than ideology can see that.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 24 May 18 11.11am |
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Originally posted by europalace
"it would require rises of 3p in the pound on each of income tax, VAT and National Insurance by 2033." The simplest way of funding the increase necessary for the NHS to function is simply to scrap brexit.
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 24 May 18 11.26am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Really? All evidence? This is simply untrue. I find that like your post on 'free speech' yesterday it's not the true picture. I would be interested in where you get this evidence for all immigrants. To get a net benefit you have to select only immigrants from a select number of countries, for example the EU or take from a set number of years and avoid the reality of older immigrants. When you stop cheery picking your evidence base the reality is that immigration to the UK costs the UK tax payer more than it brings in: Fact. Even when you account for the most positive spin. Immigrants get old too and it's a ponzi scheme which is impossible to sustain and anyone with more common sense than ideology can see that.
But looking at your links Stirling, I don't know if any of them really prove that immigration is a huge burden on the taxpayer (except the Mail, but you can't really expect much balance in an article by them in the lead up to the referendum). Migrant Watch simply disputes some of the assumptions of a previous study without providing any counter research, while the BBC article just makes the point that non EEA migrants over a long period take more in welfare and public service provision because they have lived here for longer and have therefore grown old. But they have also - the majority of them - worked in britain, paid taxes like the rest of us and, you would imagine, many will have come from former colonies where their families' labour had contributed to British wealth at a minimal expenditure for generations? Even as someone who was at best ambivalent about Brexit, you can clearly see the economic effects of a downturn in net migration. The endless supply of cheap service labour is drying up, which is surely a major factor in so many high street stores closing their doors. Walk down the road wherever you are and look how many signs are in the windows asking for people to work in Costa, KFC, Pret etc. That could be the trigger for the next recession very easily in the next couple of years, as productivity continues to fall off a cliff. Edited by serial thriller (24 May 2018 11.26am)
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