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April 19 2024 6.36am

Tax rises needed 'to prevent NHS misery'

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jeeagles Flag 24 May 18 1.40pm

If all these people want the NHS to have more money then there's nothing stopping them putting their hand in their own pocket and donating. Or, if you are happy to pay more, why don't you just go private?

Whilst I don't have a general issue with immigration, I can't see why we don't make people pay a minimum contribution before accessing services paid through tax. I'm Germany I think you have to live there for 6 years before you are entitled to anything so it's not an EU restriction. Last time my sister in law had a baby literally everyone else on her ward was Eastern European. Maternity care is very expensive and shouldnt be given to people who just want to turn up in the UK for a few years, have a baby, then move back home.

 

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 24 May 18 1.54pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Seeing as the brilliant NHS seems to be making us all live longer...in turn creating its own issues, why not start a Euthanasia dept to allow those (more often than not most expensive clients) to choose if they wish to no longer be a burden; saving the costs on the public purse but also controlling population rates in the process.

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 May 18 1.58pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Lyons550

Seeing as the brilliant NHS seems to be making us all live longer...in turn creating its own issues, why not start a Euthanasia dept to allow those (more often than not most expensive clients) to choose if they wish to no longer be a burden; saving the costs on the public purse but also controlling population rates in the process.

Better still....lets go full 'Logan's Run'!

Ah...those memories of a young Jenny Agutter.

Oh hang on...I'm 48...perhaps not.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 24 May 18 2.05pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by pefwin

I think you will find the changing demographics of the country would make a far bigger impact on the costs for a single year than the whole total for any (disputed or unsubstantiated) migrant cost.


In the next 15 years the growth in the number of over 65s will be bigger than that of all persons under 65. It a similar problem as pensions with longevity but this time the illnesses that come with longevity. A person over 65 generally costs the NHS over 3 times as much as someone under 65 years.


The biggest problem is the NHS itself for several reasons (this isn't an all inclusive or exhaustive list):


1 It under sells its on reasearch to pharma's teh buys back at full price.

2 It undertakes unneccesary operations and services, like fertility, and some plastic surgery.

3 It conflates public and private services with teh easier and more profitable services being cherry picked and done by the same individual but for profit outside the NHS.

4 It has no written scope to describe the boundaries of what is avaialble. For example should all citizens of the UK be able to access drugs that cost 40K a month but merely delay death by a few months.

5 Better but more costly surgical procedures etc, saving those which would have died.

5 Post surgery or hospital care, and bed blocking.

6 The dicotomy that it campaigns to increase overall health of the nation costing money, whilst having to deal with more chronic disease related to old age like diabetes, heart conditions or senility; which costs massive amounts of money.

7 Containg supervirus caused by poor drug prescribing, hospital cleaniness etc.

Society needs to decide what it wants and what it is willing to pay for before doing the costings. Costings should be a constraint and not the allowed run up Tsunami-like.

Perhaps we would be better to relax regulations on smoking drinking etc; perhaps the elderly pay more tax.

We need to make decisions first rather than chuck money at a public monolith which many see as so sacred it can not be questioned.

Anyway enough about the NHS lets get back to debating sending the Windrush generation home because they now cost too much.


Edited by pefwin (24 May 2018 1.30pm)

I agree with much of what you say but immigration is a factor whether you or others like it or not. A rapidly rising population must increase pressure on an already struggling service.

 

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 24 May 18 2.06pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

No tax on much of their wealth though which is the big problem. That and gold plated pensions, which are being funded by tax and the work of the young. BT etc have to plug their pension deficits by cutting jobs, wages, benefits etc of current staff not the ones who creamed it off the top for years and are now retired.

Also any wealth that is taxed is taxed at a significantly lower rate than income.


I get sick and tired of hearing about these gold plated pensions that we are all supposed to have. It is mainly civil servants, local authority workers and former employees of major companies who have these, and they are very much the minority of pensioners! I have a small annuity, bought and paid for myself and virtually taxed out of existence - and that's the reality for many. many others too.

 


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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 24 May 18 2.06pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by pefwin


You do realise this a thread about the NHS, you should start a fresh one on immigration.

There should indeed be a thread on immigration, a catch-all if you like, so S and H can carry on about it 24 hours a day.

So the rest of us could debate on-topic, which often lasts no longer than the opening few posts.

But you know what, they would never go there..........

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 May 18 2.13pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

There should indeed be a thread on immigration, a catch-all if you like, so S and H can carry on about it 24 hours a day.

So the rest of us could debate on-topic, which often lasts no longer than the opening few posts.

But you know what, they would never go there..........

You do realise you just made a post that wasn't about the NHS.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 24 May 18 2.16pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

The money wasted on the NHS seems to be on managers and more managers.
I think the reason is this:
When they f##k up they have to pay compo
These managers of managers are there to check double check and triple check to try to avoid the f ups.
Surely this equates to more on salaries and pensions etc than just to pay out any legitimate compo.
And even with all this 'protection' they still have mistakes.
more could go on the frontline care without this policy of trying to protect a potential issue.
I believe many large companies don't have insurance like we would need as it is cheaper to pay claims from their cash reserves than the policy cost.
It doesn't mean you don't fight the cases just that you can't protect against everything.

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 24 May 18 2.17pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by becky

I get sick and tired of hearing about these gold plated pensions that we are all supposed to have. It is mainly civil servants, local authority workers and former employees of major companies who have these, and they are very much the minority of pensioners!

My late father had one of these gold plated pensions. He was a senior civil servant and his excellent pension package was in part a consolation for earning less in his 45 year working life than he would have earned in the private sector.

On the other hand my own pension was so small that I commuted it all for cash and had my kitchen rebuilt so for the rest of my life I have to live on my wits and a state pension

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 24 May 18 2.18pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You do realise you just made a post that wasn't about the NHS.

You know that people just want to bury their heads in the sand when they make posts like that.

Next, he will be telling us that immigration will have no effect on water supply or road congestion.

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 24 May 18 2.19pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

The money wasted on the NHS seems to be on managers and more managers.
I think the reason is this:
When they f##k up they have to pay compo

My wife is a nurse in a local hospital and she probably spends one third of her working week in form filling as every slight detail has to be logged in case there is a legal comeback

 

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View aquickgame2's Profile aquickgame2 Flag Beni = summer,Caribbean = winter 24 May 18 2.23pm Send a Private Message to aquickgame2 Add aquickgame2 as a friend

Originally posted by becky


I get sick and tired of hearing about these gold plated pensions that we are all supposed to have. It is mainly civil servants, local authority workers and former employees of major companies who have these, and they are very much the minority of pensioners! I have a small annuity, bought and paid for myself and virtually taxed out of existence - and that's the reality for many. many others too.


Oh come on Becks...your a pensioner,you paid in all your working life but not enough...now pay more you cheeky scoundrel,these youngsters are not happy,that you are or will be a burden. You know my view on this...fck em !

 

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