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March 28 2024 7.33pm

Has the Queen betrayed her Coronation Oath?

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View Mr Palaceman's Profile Mr Palaceman Flag 28 May 18 10.53pm Send a Private Message to Mr Palaceman Add Mr Palaceman as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I feel like I've already answered most of these.

But if you feel differently about it, cool.

Is not that I feel differently or the same, I was just asking how you feel that she has broken her oath and what does her oath have to do with her making a stand against religions other than the one she has vowed to maintain. I was genuinely interested in your answer.

The question about The rule of secularism can be for another time, as I know that would be a debate in itself.

I haven't seen you answer on this thread. Sorry if I have missed something.

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 28 May 18 11.15pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

Is not that I feel differently or the same, I was just asking how you feel that she has broken her oath and what does her oath have to do with her making a stand against religions other than the one she has vowed to maintain. I was genuinely interested in your answer.

The question about The rule of secularism can be for another time, as I know that would be a debate in itself.

I haven't seen you answer on this thread. Sorry if I have missed something.

Looking over this perhaps I haven't answered these actually.

Fair enough, let me answer this tomorrow. I'm a bit sleepy.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Mr Palaceman's Profile Mr Palaceman Flag 28 May 18 11.17pm Send a Private Message to Mr Palaceman Add Mr Palaceman as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Looking over this perhaps I haven't answered these actually.

Fair enough, let me answer this tomorrow. I'm a bit sleepy.

Cool..

 


"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead"

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View Bert the Head's Profile Bert the Head Flag Epsom 28 May 18 11.38pm Send a Private Message to Bert the Head Add Bert the Head as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Read the oath.....meant to be said honestly to her god.

That's the truth of the matter.

Let's wait for "her God" to answer your post. Then we'll know for sure...if he's not still on a red card for that stuff he wrote about Parish's failure to bring in sufficient squad cover last summer.


 

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 29 May 18 9.47am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I thought my second sentence did but ok if you want it more direct.

No I'm not talking about Mogg or the commonwealth aspect.

I'm talking about sovereignty and standing for her religion.

I think this is the problem when people half understand.

1 The religion bit is historical and concerns differing sects within Christianity (Mogg), however archaic, and nothing to do with Muslims.

2 The sovereignty peice is more about Empire later the wider Commonwealth than Maasrticht and Europe.


I supose this the ability to look back in hindsight and revise history and get it startingly wrong bit like Afua Hirsch.


 


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View kenbarr's Profile kenbarr Flag Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 30 May 18 2.36am Send a Private Message to kenbarr Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add kenbarr as a friend

Once upon a time, when the monarch made the final decisions involving government policy, you would have a point. However, it is 10 Downing Street that makes policy and the House of Commons to provide advice and consent. The Lords have only an advisory role and the Queen is virtually forced to give assent to all that is approved at Westminster. Given her stalwart support of the Commonwealth, her loyalty to her governments and the unique position she holds in the world as Head of State in the U.K. as well as Head of State of other sovereign nations recognized by the U.N. (thank you Richard Osman) I would say that the Queen has undoubtedly upheld her oath as it has evolved over time.

Edited by kenbarr (30 May 2018 2.37am)

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 30 May 18 8.01am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Firstly, sorry for the delay, family matters and all that.

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

In the first part, she promises to govern the mentioned territories according to their laws and customs.

Laws and customs change and those territories are populated by many different cultures and races, practising different laws and customs and faiths. Some of those territories, like the United Kingdom, have laws that have been implimented, in accordance with the religious practises of the people that live there.

Yes she did, with the emphasis placed firstly on the British state as that is her primary role.

Your focus upon this aspect has nothing to do with my point concerning it. My reading of that section attributed entirely to her signing away powers to the EU. None of those commonwealth countries are apart of the EU and are largely unaffected by the Royal assent in this case…...outside of the fact that the increased trade with the EU probably affected their trade with the UK negatively.

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

In the second part, she vowed to maintain the church, preserve the clergy in accordance with its rules, as established in law. Has she not done both of those things in her reign?.

I also don't see anything in the oath that you have posted that states that if another religion our custom should be taken up by citizens that she would have to make a stand against it.

What do you think that this oath requires her to stand against? If anything...

As I say, the oath state, 'Will you maintain and preserve inviolably the settlement of the Church of England'. Not will you be even handed of other religions as we have seen Charles be down the years for example.

She hasn’t done anything I have observed to maintain the church nor clergy. All she has done is carry out her assigned duties like a good little monarch. A poodle for the state.

Now this is quite high criticism from me, who has always been a monarchist, and still is…..if only to the extent that the suggested alternatives seem to come with larger apparent pitfalls.

However, the powers that the monarch has, in a practical sense has is threefold, firstly the power not to sign into assent bills. That said, this hasn’t been done since 1707 and hence it’s a ritual formality that’s not really on the table. So that’s a strike.

The second is in her meetings with Prime Ministers who have to consult with her weekly. This might be the scene for many a demonstration of her views however, personally I doubt it. From my observation I think she only really has concern for maintaining the Monarchy.

The third and real power the monarchy has to speak out is via the press using its royal servants and it has been doing this for decades. However, this is behind my criticism here as all that appears in the press is the pushing of good publicity for the monarchy itself…Nothing official but very apparent. It’s obsessed, as I stated in my original post with ensuring its own popularity and position…..and absolutely nothing to do with maintaining any of those vows.

The Queen could have used those channels decades ago when it mattered in accordance with those actual constitutional oaths. It’s all too far gone now. The battles are lost and different ones are ahead.

As I stated I'm not religious and personally her failing on even attempting to promote her religion matters little to me.

But as a commentary on her effectiveness of her leadership as a monarch who is expected to hold to her vows (outside of a disavow) it stands. I have my views, which have evolved and now come with this criticism.

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

Also, what is the "The rule of secularism".

The maintenance of freedoms pertaining to a democratic state. That was a statement concerning my own concerns about this country, as related to the reality that parallel district courts operate here and laws almost amounting to blasphemy have been introduced here.

These are just some societal developments that go against her oaths and matters that she could have used the press to 'unofficially' campaign against if those original constitutional oaths were important.

Edited by Stirlingsays (30 May 2018 8.05am)

 


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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 07 Jun 18 7.13pm Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

In her Coronation Oath, 1953 the Queen answered 'I will.' to following from the Archbishop.

Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern the Peoples of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Union of South Africa, pakistan, and Ceylon, and of your Possessions and the other Territories to any of them belonging or pertaining, according to their respective laws and customs?

The Queen signed into assent the Treaty of Rome 1957, the EEC act 1972, the Maastrict treaty 1992, the Barcelona treaty 1995 and Lisbon 2007.

Then the soon to become Queen answered 'All this I promise to do.' to the following.

Will you to the utmost of your power maintain the Laws of God and the true profession of the Gospel? Will you to the utmost of your power maintain in the United Kingdom the Protestant Reformed Religion established by law? Will you maintain and preserve inviolably the settlement of the Church of England, and the doctrine, worship, discipline, and government thereof, as by law established in England? And will you preserve unto the Bishops and Clergy of England, and to the Churches there committed to their charge, all such rights and privileges, as by law do or shall appertain to them or any of them?

Now I'm not religious but I've seen the rise of other religions in this country even dent the rule of secularism.....with parallel district courts and laws almost amounting to blasphemy being introduced here.

Whether it is to do with signing away sovereign powers to outside institutions or watching the decline and loss of Christian hegemony in the country the Queen has said and done nothing.

I know she is only a representative but she should have made a stand at some point but she has done nothing. Perhaps she is weak or badly advised but that's no excuse for her position. Indeed when we look at what she has said all that appears important is maintaining the monarchy....while watching what it's meant to do vanish.

I'm coming to the conclusion that she probably has betrayed her Coronation Oath.

off with her f*cking head

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 07 Jun 18 7.21pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

off with her f*cking head

Who would you have instead?

I'm voting for Denise Van Outen......Personable and still worthy of an hour.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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