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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 02 Jun 20 9.55pm
Originally posted by SavoyTruffle Here is was being told it was the lefties using that word to shut down debate... That's obviously not what I am saying, all I am trying to highlight is statistically your likely to be better off being born with certain traits vs others, for a whole myriad of factors. That doesn't mean if you are those things there is a guarantee you won't have a s*** life and vice versa. Apologies you have misunderstood or may have missed the highlighted section. Again, this isn't meant to be provocative very genuine question, you stated: " the police disproportionately kill unarmed black people in the US." I was just asking what the statistics were behind this as I have been seeing a lot of disparity, from various sources, regarding the statistics. I'm assuming you haven't made this statement with any agenda in mind and there are actual facts behind it? That can be interpreted as provocative but I assure you isn't intended to be. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 02 Jun 20 9.55pm

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

Here is was being told it was the lefties using that word to shut down debate...

That's obviously not what I am saying, all I am trying to highlight is statistically your likely to be better off being born with certain traits vs others, for a whole myriad of factors. That doesn't mean if you are those things there is a guarantee you won't have a s*** life and vice versa.

Apologies you have misunderstood or may have missed the highlighted section.

Again, this isn't meant to be provocative very genuine question, you stated:

" the police disproportionately kill unarmed black people in the US."

I was just asking what the statistics were behind this as I have been seeing a lot of disparity, from various sources, regarding the statistics.

I'm assuming you haven't made this statement with any agenda in mind and there are actual facts behind it? That can be interpreted as provocative but I assure you isn't intended to be.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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serial thriller The Promised Land 02 Jun 20 9.56pm
Originally posted by Matov And who pushes back against that? The Left? Do me a favour. They do nothing other than strutting around telling everybody how s* other whites are. Both Brexit and Trump were opposed by the corporate interests you claim to be so opposed to. The ones led by the same Billionares who are plastering 'Black Lives Matter' over any and everything that might enable them to make a few more quid. The ones who pay the likes of Clinton and Obama half a million a pop to give 20 minutes speeches. Have you ever sat down for a single minute and wondered why people voted for Brexit? Or for Trump? As opposed to what? Even less say over their lives or Hillary Clinton? T I suspect we agree on perhaps more than either would be willing to accept but the truth is that the Left sold themselves out ages ago. Only defined by what they are against as opposed to what they are for. And willing to sell the White Working-class out because they get a buzz from it. Addicts to feeling so damm good and self-righteous. There are people being left in comas for the crime of trying to defend their business and you know what the Left are doing? Funding the bail money for the people doing the looting. Nah. This bulls* has to be called out. Did that bloke deserve to have that cop kneel on his neck like that? No. But that cop is now facing a murder charge. The system is working. That is how this is meant to go down. Plenty of non-white cops and soldiers out there, along with business owners of all hues, laying the life on the line and the Left are cheering on those who want to kill them and steal their livelihoods. This is not about skin colour now but values. of course i thought about why people voted for brexit. I nearly did so myself! But I'm sorry, the idea that Trump has ever been an antithesis to corporations is a fcling joke. The man's a billionaire off inherited wealth, a lobbyist, who has worked in every shade of s most corporate w*er have to to get to the top. As for the left not caring about the poor, who is it proposing UBI? In America, who is proposing free healthcare for all? whose proposing taxes on the rich to help those who need it? What the left recognised in the 20th century is that talking about class emancipation means nothing if you don't take everyone with you. Stalin killed millions because of ethnic and religious hatred. If we don't listen to our black, female, gay comrades, we will sell them out down the river and our struggle for equality will mean nothing. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 02 Jun 20 9.56pm

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Originally posted by Matov

And who pushes back against that? The Left? Do me a favour. They do nothing other than strutting around telling everybody how s*** other whites are.

Both Brexit and Trump were opposed by the corporate interests you claim to be so opposed to. The ones led by the same Billionares who are plastering 'Black Lives Matter' over any and everything that might enable them to make a few more quid. The ones who pay the likes of Clinton and Obama half a million a pop to give 20 minutes speeches.

Have you ever sat down for a single minute and wondered why people voted for Brexit? Or for Trump? As opposed to what? Even less say over their lives or Hillary Clinton? T

I suspect we agree on perhaps more than either would be willing to accept but the truth is that the Left sold themselves out ages ago. Only defined by what they are against as opposed to what they are for. And willing to sell the White Working-class out because they get a buzz from it. Addicts to feeling so damm good and self-righteous.

There are people being left in comas for the crime of trying to defend their business and you know what the Left are doing? Funding the bail money for the people doing the looting.

Nah. This bulls*** has to be called out. Did that bloke deserve to have that cop kneel on his neck like that? No. But that cop is now facing a murder charge. The system is working. That is how this is meant to go down.

Plenty of non-white cops and soldiers out there, along with business owners of all hues, laying the life on the line and the Left are cheering on those who want to kill them and steal their livelihoods.

This is not about skin colour now but values.

of course i thought about why people voted for brexit. I nearly did so myself!

But I'm sorry, the idea that Trump has ever been an antithesis to corporations is a f*cling joke. The man's a billionaire off inherited wealth, a lobbyist, who has worked in every shade of s*** most corporate w***er have to to get to the top.

As for the left not caring about the poor, who is it proposing UBI? In America, who is proposing free healthcare for all? whose proposing taxes on the rich to help those who need it? What the left recognised in the 20th century is that talking about class emancipation means nothing if you don't take everyone with you. Stalin killed millions because of ethnic and religious hatred. If we don't listen to our black, female, gay comrades, we will sell them out down the river and our struggle for equality will mean nothing.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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cryrst The garden of England 02 Jun 20 9.58pm
Originally posted by SavoyTruffle Here is was being told it was the lefties using that word to shut down debate... That's obviously not what I am saying, all I am trying to highlight is statistically your likely to be better off being born with certain traits vs others, for a whole myriad of factors. That doesn't mean if you are those things there is a guarantee you won't have a s*** life and vice versa. In the words of danh you racist. Do you see how easy that was.It doesnt matter what you mean nowadays, context has no validity to certain parts of society or politics for that matter. That Savoy is the BIG problem in a nut shell.
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cryrst

The garden of England 02 Jun 20 9.58pm

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

Here is was being told it was the lefties using that word to shut down debate...

In the words of danh you racist. Do you see how easy that was.It doesnt matter what you mean nowadays, context has no validity to certain parts of society or politics for that matter. That Savoy is the BIG problem in a nut shell.

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SavoyTruffle 02 Jun 20 10.14pm
Originally posted by Matov And my pain is around this notion that Whites have to share a collective sense of guilt. If you want to feel guilty or privileged because of your skin tone then crack on but don't try to them impose that on the rest of us. Keep your bitching and whining to yourselves. With perhaps the most ironic, in a f*ed up way, is that this entire s* show has convinced me that my biggest enemies are other whites. Progressive w***ers. Sick to death of the constant and never-ending virtue signalling going on all around us at the moment. Like this had to be all about them. Narsacistic prats. I would be angry too if I was reading things that weren't written, I said in my previous post that I have no sense of guilt for being what I am, yet you perceived that I did and continue to rant on to that effect. There seems to be a desire to shut down any dissenting voice that even moderately doesn't tow the line on this forum. I've read your posts before and I have always thought you seem to have a good understanding of the political landscape despite fundamentally having a different ideological stance to me. I have very traditional socialist principles and don't really care for identity politics outside of class. My personal view is all the issues that currently surround race, sexuality, religion wouldn't be as much of a problem if working class people that help to create the wealth of a nation got their fair share of the pie. People would be able to live their lives more comfortably and the cultural/identity issues that are used to divide people would be much less of a problem. Ultimately I have much more in common with a working class person with a different race/religion/sexuality to me than I do with the millionaires in parliament and the billionaires that fund them.
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SavoyTruffle

02 Jun 20 10.14pm

Originally posted by Matov

And my pain is around this notion that Whites have to share a collective sense of guilt. If you want to feel guilty or privileged because of your skin tone then crack on but don't try to them impose that on the rest of us. Keep your bitching and whining to yourselves.

With perhaps the most ironic, in a f***ed up way, is that this entire s*** show has convinced me that my biggest enemies are other whites. Progressive w***ers. Sick to death of the constant and never-ending virtue signalling going on all around us at the moment. Like this had to be all about them. Narsacistic prats.

I would be angry too if I was reading things that weren't written, I said in my previous post that I have no sense of guilt for being what I am, yet you perceived that I did and continue to rant on to that effect.

There seems to be a desire to shut down any dissenting voice that even moderately doesn't tow the line on this forum. I've read your posts before and I have always thought you seem to have a good understanding of the political landscape despite fundamentally having a different ideological stance to me.

I have very traditional socialist principles and don't really care for identity politics outside of class. My personal view is all the issues that currently surround race, sexuality, religion wouldn't be as much of a problem if working class people that help to create the wealth of a nation got their fair share of the pie. People would be able to live their lives more comfortably and the cultural/identity issues that are used to divide people would be much less of a problem. Ultimately I have much more in common with a working class person with a different race/religion/sexuality to me than I do with the millionaires in parliament and the billionaires that fund them.

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 02 Jun 20 10.15pm
This Thursday I will be taking a knee for black people whilst clapping for the nurses. Kind of gets it all out the way at once. "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 02 Jun 20 10.15pm

This Thursday I will be taking a knee for black people whilst clapping for the nurses. Kind of gets it all out the way at once.

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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Matov 02 Jun 20 10.20pm
Originally posted by serial thriller What the left recognised in the 20th century is that talking about class emancipation means nothing if you don't take everyone with you. Stalin killed millions because of ethnic and religious hatred. If we don't listen to our black, female, gay comrades, we will sell them out down the river and our struggle for equality will mean nothing. But you seek to divide, over and over again. This entire notion of 'white privilege' comes with zero class distinction either implied or promoted. Along with constant attacks of traditional family structures by way of championing Gay rights and so on. I would argue that the Left effectively gave up on traditional notions of the 'class struggle' in favour of an equality ideal that actually does nothing to achieve that goal in a meaningful way. Instead we see what is happening today. A left that are raising funds to bail out rioters. That needs to sink in. The Left are cheering on violence against Police and Property. And for what purpose? Seriously? What do you think any of this will achieve? What are the goals? "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

02 Jun 20 10.20pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

What the left recognised in the 20th century is that talking about class emancipation means nothing if you don't take everyone with you. Stalin killed millions because of ethnic and religious hatred. If we don't listen to our black, female, gay comrades, we will sell them out down the river and our struggle for equality will mean nothing.

But you seek to divide, over and over again. This entire notion of 'white privilege' comes with zero class distinction either implied or promoted. Along with constant attacks of traditional family structures by way of championing Gay rights and so on.

I would argue that the Left effectively gave up on traditional notions of the 'class struggle' in favour of an equality ideal that actually does nothing to achieve that goal in a meaningful way.

Instead we see what is happening today. A left that are raising funds to bail out rioters. That needs to sink in. The Left are cheering on violence against Police and Property. And for what purpose? Seriously? What do you think any of this will achieve? What are the goals?

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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SavoyTruffle 02 Jun 20 10.26pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays If they weren't disproportionately doing the crimes then they wouldn't be disproportionately in body bags. Whites are killed at a slightly higher rate than blacks, but blacks commit far more crimes. Them the breaks. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Jun 2020 9.46pm) A higher total, not a higher rate. Given the US is 72% white vs 12% African America, I would be seriously concerned if Black people made up a higher total number of deaths as a result of the police. Attachment: CHART_9_the_counted.jpg (30.17Kb)
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SavoyTruffle

02 Jun 20 10.26pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If they weren't disproportionately doing the crimes then they wouldn't be disproportionately in body bags.

Whites are killed at a slightly higher rate than blacks, but blacks commit far more crimes.

Them the breaks.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Jun 2020 9.46pm)

A higher total, not a higher rate.

Given the US is 72% white vs 12% African America, I would be seriously concerned if Black people made up a higher total number of deaths as a result of the police.

Attachment: CHART_9_the_counted.jpg (30.17Kb)

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Stirlingsays 02 Jun 20 10.28pm
You just got to love those 'useful idiots' cheering on those 'peaceful protestors'. [Tweet Link] 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

02 Jun 20 10.28pm

You just got to love those 'useful idiots' cheering on those 'peaceful protestors'.

[Tweet Link]

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Matov 02 Jun 20 10.30pm
Originally posted by SavoyTruffle I have very traditional socialist principles and don't really care for identity politics outside of class. My personal view is all the issues that currently surround race, sexuality, religion wouldn't be as much of a problem if working class people that help to create the wealth of a nation got their fair share of the pie. People would be able to live their lives more comfortably and the cultural/identity issues that are used to divide people would be much less of a problem. But the Left are the primary drivers behind these divides. Actively seek to promote them. Cheer on mass-migration which impacts on the wages of the very poorest in our society whilst being funded and encouraged to so so by the very people you claim to have nothing in common with. Essentially act as the cheerleaders for globalisation and happy to be bought off by Coca-Cola sponsoring 'Pride' marches and Disney having trans-cartoon characters. Out of interest can you even bring yourself to mouth the words 'British Jobs for British workers' anymore? Or is that concept completely alien to you? "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

02 Jun 20 10.30pm

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

But the Left are the primary drivers behind these divides. Actively seek to promote them. Cheer on mass-migration which impacts on the wages of the very poorest in our society whilst being funded and encouraged to so so by the very people you claim to have nothing in common with. Essentially act as the cheerleaders for globalisation and happy to be bought off by Coca-Cola sponsoring 'Pride' marches and Disney having trans-cartoon characters.

Out of interest can you even bring yourself to mouth the words 'British Jobs for British workers' anymore? Or is that concept completely alien to you?

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Matov 02 Jun 20 10.34pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays You just got to love those 'useful idiots' cheering on those 'peaceful protestors'. Beautiful to watch. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

02 Jun 20 10.34pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You just got to love those 'useful idiots' cheering on those 'peaceful protestors'.

Beautiful to watch.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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SavoyTruffle 02 Jun 20 10.36pm
Originally posted by Nicholas91 Apologies you have misunderstood or may have missed the highlighted section. Again, this isn't meant to be provocative very genuine question, you stated: " the police disproportionately kill unarmed black people in the US." I was just asking what the statistics were behind this as I have been seeing a lot of disparity, from various sources, regarding the statistics. I'm assuming you haven't made this statement with any agenda in mind and there are actual facts behind it? That can be interpreted as provocative but I assure you isn't intended to be. No that reply was to your bit about me sounding a tad racist... I just replied something similar regarding this to Sterling, and attached the info. I will also attach a report from FBI homicide report here. You can see from this the overall group of people killed by police in the US is White people, you would expect this given the country is 72% white. Disproportionately though Black people are killed at a higher rate by police officers. There could be a whole series of factors for this which I am sure many people on here will have their viewpoints on, that is fair enough. I am just starting the facts. If you are interested I can also show you data from 2015 that shows this per million when unarmed. Attachment: police killings by race.jpg (80.55Kb)
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SavoyTruffle

02 Jun 20 10.36pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Apologies you have misunderstood or may have missed the highlighted section.

Again, this isn't meant to be provocative very genuine question, you stated:

" the police disproportionately kill unarmed black people in the US."

I was just asking what the statistics were behind this as I have been seeing a lot of disparity, from various sources, regarding the statistics.

I'm assuming you haven't made this statement with any agenda in mind and there are actual facts behind it? That can be interpreted as provocative but I assure you isn't intended to be.

No that reply was to your bit about me sounding a tad racist...

I just replied something similar regarding this to Sterling, and attached the info. I will also attach a report from FBI homicide report here. You can see from this the overall group of people killed by police in the US is White people, you would expect this given the country is 72% white.

Disproportionately though Black people are killed at a higher rate by police officers. There could be a whole series of factors for this which I am sure many people on here will have their viewpoints on, that is fair enough. I am just starting the facts. If you are interested I can also show you data from 2015 that shows this per million when unarmed.

Attachment: police killings by race.jpg (80.55Kb)

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SavoyTruffle 02 Jun 20 10.40pm
Originally posted by cryrst In the words of danh you racist. Do you see how easy that was.It doesnt matter what you mean nowadays, context has no validity to certain parts of society or politics for that matter. That Savoy is the BIG problem in a nut shell. I don't speak for DanH or anyone else on this forum, if you want to cry about people throwing around the word racist, cry to the person who called me one. Edited by SavoyTruffle (02 Jun 2020 10.41pm) Edited by SavoyTruffle (02 Jun 2020 10.41pm)
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SavoyTruffle

02 Jun 20 10.40pm

Originally posted by cryrst

In the words of danh you racist. Do you see how easy that was.It doesnt matter what you mean nowadays, context has no validity to certain parts of society or politics for that matter. That Savoy is the BIG problem in a nut shell.

I don't speak for DanH or anyone else on this forum, if you want to cry about people throwing around the word racist, cry to the person who called me one.

Edited by SavoyTruffle (02 Jun 2020 10.41pm)

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