Is the Devil good, and God evil?

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Brentmiester_General Front line in the battle against t... 15 Jun 18 8.32pm
Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye Whats the point of believing in a god if he exists anyway? Shouldn't he have bigger fish to fry? Exactly. And if he demands our constant love and adulation then he’s a bit of an arse anyway. "We love you Palace, we f@cking hate Man U, We love you Palace, we hate the brighton too, We love you Palace we play in red 'n' blue, so f@ck you, and you ...
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Brentmiester_General

Front line in the battle against t... 15 Jun 18 8.32pm

Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye

Whats the point of believing in a god if he exists anyway? Shouldn't he have bigger fish to fry?

Exactly. And if he demands our constant love and adulation then he’s a bit of an arse anyway.

"We love you Palace, we f@cking hate Man U, We love you Palace, we hate the brighton too, We love you Palace we play in red 'n' blue, so f@ck you, and you ...

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acolcpfc Littlehampton, West Sussex 15 Jun 18 9.00pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger It is extremely unlikely that God exists. If you want me to even care if God exists or not then you had better come up with some evidence to at least make the idea plausible. The evidence is that God is a construct just like every other thing men have worshipped. Surely the universe is hard evidence of a creator, unless it popped into existence from nothing.
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acolcpfc

Littlehampton, West Sussex 15 Jun 18 9.00pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

It is extremely unlikely that God exists.
If you want me to even care if God exists or not then you had better come up with some evidence to at least make the idea plausible.
The evidence is that God is a construct just like every other thing men have worshipped.

Surely the universe is hard evidence of a creator, unless it popped into existence from nothing.

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Stirlingsays 15 Jun 18 9.12pm
Originally posted by acolcpfc Surely the universe is hard evidence of a creator. Which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, Nope...That's a constant loop.....that's just a god of the gaps argument. We just don't know. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2018 9.14pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Jun 18 9.12pm

Originally posted by acolcpfc

Surely the universe is hard evidence of a creator.

Which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator,

Nope...That's a constant loop.....that's just a god of the gaps argument.

We just don't know.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2018 9.14pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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cryrst The garden of England 15 Jun 18 9.24pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger The evidence is in the fact that throughout history, humans have beleived in all sorts of tosh. They still beleive in all sorts of different tosh. Saying that you can't prove God doesn't exist is not a reasonable argument for his existence. There are many things that you can't prove or disprove with any certainty. More importantly. Why does it matter? You won't get into the afterlife by being a good God worshipper, Think about it. It is an absurd notion on so many levels. By your reckoning. God made us, so any bad thing we do are his fault. Right? I have wasted enough time on this nonsense. Ahhh There you go mentioning the afterlife. This is plainly a religious notion. In all writings of all religions. I personally think there is a spirit world but only dead people really know. And demi Moore and scrooge.
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cryrst

The garden of England 15 Jun 18 9.24pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The evidence is in the fact that throughout history, humans have beleived in all sorts of tosh. They still beleive in all sorts of different tosh.

Saying that you can't prove God doesn't exist is not a reasonable argument for his existence. There are many things that you can't prove or disprove with any certainty.

More importantly. Why does it matter? You won't get into the afterlife by being a good God worshipper, Think about it. It is an absurd notion on so many levels.
By your reckoning. God made us, so any bad thing we do are his fault. Right?
I have wasted enough time on this nonsense.

Ahhh
There you go mentioning the afterlife.
This is plainly a religious notion.
In all writings of all religions.
I personally think there is a spirit world but only dead people really know.
And demi Moore and scrooge.

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acolcpfc Littlehampton, West Sussex 15 Jun 18 9.39pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, which is hard evidence of a creator, Nope...That's a constant loop.....that's just a god of the gaps argument. We just don't know. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2018 9.14pm) You cannot have an infinite regress, it’s illogical. Either the universe is eternal or something that caused it is, there is strong evidence the universe is not eternal Edited by acolcpfc (15 Jun 2018 9.40pm)
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acolcpfc

Littlehampton, West Sussex 15 Jun 18 9.39pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Nope...That's a constant loop.....that's just a god of the gaps argument.

We just don't know.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2018 9.14pm)

You cannot have an infinite regress, it’s illogical. Either the universe is eternal or something that caused it is, there is strong evidence the universe is not eternal

Edited by acolcpfc (15 Jun 2018 9.40pm)

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Hrolf The Ganger 15 Jun 18 9.42pm
Originally posted by acolcpfc Surely the universe is hard evidence of a creator, unless it popped into existence from nothing. No. It is another example of using God to fill in gaps in knowledge. For the reason Stirling has so eloquently explained, the creator idea is totally flawed. Even if there were a 'creator', he would not be the Biblical God. In even considering such a possibility one has to totally dismiss any Biblical cliche and recognise that such a being would be exactly that, just another being. The whole God worship thing would be similar to worshipping someone who just happens to have better technology than you.
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Hrolf The Ganger

15 Jun 18 9.42pm

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Originally posted by acolcpfc

Surely the universe is hard evidence of a creator, unless it popped into existence from nothing.

No. It is another example of using God to fill in gaps in knowledge.
For the reason Stirling has so eloquently explained, the creator idea is totally flawed.

Even if there were a 'creator', he would not be the Biblical God. In even considering such a possibility one has to totally dismiss any Biblical cliche and recognise that such a being would be exactly that, just another being. The whole God worship thing would be similar to worshipping someone who just happens to have better technology than you.

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Hrolf The Ganger 15 Jun 18 9.49pm
Originally posted by cryrst Ahhh There you go mentioning the afterlife. This is plainly a religious notion. In all writings of all religions. I personally think there is a spirit world but only dead people really know. And demi Moore and scrooge. It's pointless to speculate really. We will all know all too soon. If we were to entertain such an idea. Exactly how would it work? Do animals have spirits? How would personal relationships work? Where is this realm? What would be the point in an evolutionary sense? I have considered the possibility that people from the future or from another planet could have artificially created an afterlife to preserve all life in a manageable form but that might not be such a good thing.
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Hrolf The Ganger

15 Jun 18 9.49pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Ahhh
There you go mentioning the afterlife.
This is plainly a religious notion.
In all writings of all religions.
I personally think there is a spirit world but only dead people really know.
And demi Moore and scrooge.

It's pointless to speculate really. We will all know all too soon.
If we were to entertain such an idea. Exactly how would it work? Do animals have spirits? How would personal relationships work? Where is this realm?
What would be the point in an evolutionary sense?

I have considered the possibility that people from the future or from another planet could have artificially created an afterlife to preserve all life in a manageable form but that might not be such a good thing.

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Stirlingsays 15 Jun 18 9.49pm
Originally posted by acolcpfc You cannot have an infinite regress, it’s illogical. Either the universe is eternal or something that caused it is, there is strong evidence the universe is not eternal Edited by acolcpfc (15 Jun 2018 9.40pm) Sure an infinite regress is illogical, just as a creator is illogical. Neither make sense. Some think the infinite regress is true via the notion that infinities are true....which makes sense in a crazy way......turtles all the way down. Anyway there is no strong evidence that the universe is anything in terms of a creator or whatever. These are unknowables. I have no issues with you speculating at all.....It's fun to speculate, just as long as we play on that understanding that we speculate. And lets not forget that end predictions like 'heat death' or 'big rip' are still just speculation. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2018 9.55pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Jun 18 9.49pm

Originally posted by acolcpfc

You cannot have an infinite regress, it’s illogical. Either the universe is eternal or something that caused it is, there is strong evidence the universe is not eternal

Edited by acolcpfc (15 Jun 2018 9.40pm)

Sure an infinite regress is illogical, just as a creator is illogical.

Neither make sense.

Some think the infinite regress is true via the notion that infinities are true....which makes sense in a crazy way......turtles all the way down.

Anyway there is no strong evidence that the universe is anything in terms of a creator or whatever.

These are unknowables.

I have no issues with you speculating at all.....It's fun to speculate, just as long as we play on that understanding that we speculate.

And lets not forget that end predictions like 'heat death' or 'big rip' are still just speculation.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2018 9.55pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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acolcpfc Littlehampton, West Sussex 15 Jun 18 9.57pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger No. It is another example of using God to fill in gaps in knowledge. For the reason Stirling has so eloquently explained, the creator idea is totally flawed. Even if there were a 'creator', he would not be the Biblical God. In even considering such a possibility one has to totally dismiss any Biblical cliche and recognise that such a being would be exactly that, just another being. The whole God worship thing would be similar to worshipping someone who just happens to have better technology than you. It’s not using God to fill in the gaps, it’s the idea of a universe coming into being with no cause. By definition the cause would have to be space less, timeless, immaterial, powerful and personal (because it chose when to create it), as time, space and matter came to be from the Big Bang. If the universe can come into being with no cause, why do we not see objects popping into existence with no cause all the time all the time?
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acolcpfc

Littlehampton, West Sussex 15 Jun 18 9.57pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

No. It is another example of using God to fill in gaps in knowledge.
For the reason Stirling has so eloquently explained, the creator idea is totally flawed.

It’s not using God to fill in the gaps, it’s the idea of a universe coming into being with no cause. By definition the cause would have to be space less, timeless, immaterial, powerful and personal (because it chose when to create it), as time, space and matter came to be from the Big Bang. If the universe can come into being with no cause, why do we not see objects popping into existence with no cause all the time all the time?

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Stirlingsays 15 Jun 18 10.01pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger It's pointless to speculate really. We will all know all too soon. If we were to entertain such an idea. Exactly how would it work? Do animals have spirits? How would personal relationships work? Where is this realm? What would be the point in an evolutionary sense? I have considered the possibility that people from the future or from another planet could have artificially created an afterlife to preserve all life in a manageable form but that might not be such a good thing. Fecking hell.....No afterlife for Brighton fans then, as what's the point of preserving them? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Jun 18 10.01pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Fecking hell.....No afterlife for Brighton fans then, as what's the point of preserving them?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 15 Jun 18 10.07pm
Originally posted by acolcpfc It’s not using God to fill in the gaps, it’s the idea of a universe coming into being with no cause. By definition the cause would have to be space less, timeless, immaterial, powerful and personal (because it chose when to create it), as time, space and matter came to be from the Big Bang. If the universe can come into being with no cause, why do we not see objects popping into existence with no cause all the time all the time? Of course it is, it's exactly using god to fill the gap. You just speculated that a 'spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful and personal being' created the universe. That's using a god to fill the gap of knowledge for the creation of the universe. Seriously, you can't say that infinite regression is illogical but then invent a 'spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful and personal being' and say that is logical. It's back to who created the creator. If you are going to use magic to start the process off.....then I can say that a talking nano sized microwave orbiting around my ball sack is the real creator of the universe....and I know because it told me while I nibbled on a pizza. These are matters where logic provides no explanation with the available evidence. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2018 10.11pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Jun 18 10.07pm

Originally posted by acolcpfc

Of course it is, it's exactly using god to fill the gap.

You just speculated that a 'spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful and personal being' created the universe. That's using a god to fill the gap of knowledge for the creation of the universe.

Seriously, you can't say that infinite regression is illogical but then invent a 'spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful and personal being' and say that is logical.

It's back to who created the creator. If you are going to use magic to start the process off.....then I can say that a talking nano sized microwave orbiting around my ball sack is the real creator of the universe....and I know because it told me while I nibbled on a pizza.

These are matters where logic provides no explanation with the available evidence.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2018 10.11pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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acolcpfc Littlehampton, West Sussex 15 Jun 18 10.23pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Of course it is, it's exactly using god to fill the gap. You just speculated that a 'spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful and personal being' created the universe. That's using a god to fill the gap of knowledge for the creation of the universe. Seriously, you can't say that infinite regression is illogical but then invent a 'spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful and personal being' and say that is logical. It's back to who created the creator. If you are going to use magic to start the process off.....then I can say that a talking nano sized microwave orbiting around my ball sack is the real creator of the universe....and I know because it told me while I nibbled on a pizza. These are matters where logic provides no explanation with the available evidence. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2018 10.11pm) So do you think there is a naturalist explanation to the universe then? As the laws of nature did not exist prior to the Big Bang as that is when they came into being. Anything that caused the universe therefore is supernatural
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acolcpfc

Littlehampton, West Sussex 15 Jun 18 10.23pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Of course it is, it's exactly using god to fill the gap.

You just speculated that a 'spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful and personal being' created the universe. That's using a god to fill the gap of knowledge for the creation of the universe.

Seriously, you can't say that infinite regression is illogical but then invent a 'spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful and personal being' and say that is logical.

These are matters where logic provides no explanation with the available evidence.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2018 10.11pm)

So do you think there is a naturalist explanation to the universe then? As the laws of nature did not exist prior to the Big Bang as that is when they came into being. Anything that caused the universe therefore is supernatural

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