Gary Lineker backs Brexit referendum campaign

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 27 Jul 18 2.41pm
Originally posted by Spiderman Not quite sure of the logic here, surely the democratic will of the people was to leave and it was always going to take 2 years. With regard to any objection to a referendum, I assume you mean a 2nd one...the objection being the 1st one showed the democratic will of the people was to leave, My point was if the result of the referendum is not carried out, that is undemocratic. But to resist a second referendum because you fear the outcome is equally undemocratic - this is the part I am struggling with.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 27 Jul 18 2.41pm

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Originally posted by Spiderman

Not quite sure of the logic here, surely the democratic will of the people was to leave and it was always going to take 2 years. With regard to any objection to a referendum, I assume you mean a 2nd one...the objection being the 1st one showed the democratic will of the people was to leave, My point was if the result of the referendum is not carried out, that is undemocratic.

But to resist a second referendum because you fear the outcome is equally undemocratic - this is the part I am struggling with.

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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Jul 18 2.48pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow But to resist a second referendum because you fear the outcome is equally undemocratic - this is the part I am struggling with. Try answering my simple questions to ease your struggle.
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Hrolf The Ganger

27 Jul 18 2.48pm

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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

But to resist a second referendum because you fear the outcome is equally undemocratic - this is the part I am struggling with.

Try answering my simple questions to ease your struggle.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 27 Jul 18 2.59pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Try answering my simple questions to ease your struggle. I have no interest in discussing it with you.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 27 Jul 18 2.59pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Try answering my simple questions to ease your struggle.

I have no interest in discussing it with you.

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steeleye20 Croydon 27 Jul 18 3.01pm
Easy to answer H simple questions. PM pick up the phone and tell the other leaders the UK is dropping brexit completely.
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steeleye20

Croydon 27 Jul 18 3.01pm

Easy to answer H simple questions.

PM pick up the phone and tell the other leaders the UK is dropping brexit completely.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 27 Jul 18 3.14pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey Here. I would urge everyone to read this: [Link] It's an interesting article - thanks. Specifically talking about section 4 on 'it is undemocratic', the article does acknowledge that "when the facts change radically" or "if the Brexit process results in circumstances that couldn't have been reasonably forseen", so I guess this is where the disagreement from those calling for the 2nd referendum would be.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 27 Jul 18 3.14pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Here. I would urge everyone to read this:

[Link]

It's an interesting article - thanks.

Specifically talking about section 4 on 'it is undemocratic', the article does acknowledge that "when the facts change radically" or "if the Brexit process results in circumstances that couldn't have been reasonably forseen", so I guess this is where the disagreement from those calling for the 2nd referendum would be.

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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Jul 18 3.55pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow I have no interest in discussing it with you. So you can't answer my questions without revealing the absurdity of your argument. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Hrolf The Ganger

27 Jul 18 3.55pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I have no interest in discussing it with you.

So you can't answer my questions without revealing the absurdity of your argument.

Thanks for clearing that up.

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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Jul 18 3.56pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Easy to answer H simple questions. PM pick up the phone and tell the other leaders the UK is dropping brexit completely. Answer it for him then.
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Hrolf The Ganger

27 Jul 18 3.56pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Easy to answer H simple questions.

PM pick up the phone and tell the other leaders the UK is dropping brexit completely.

Answer it for him then.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 27 Jul 18 4.03pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger So you can't answer my questions without revealing the absurdity of your argument. Thanks for clearing that up. What is my argument?
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 27 Jul 18 4.03pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So you can't answer my questions without revealing the absurdity of your argument.

Thanks for clearing that up.

What is my argument?

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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Jul 18 4.18pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow What is my argument? Apologies but I can't answer because I have just been yellow carded. My hands are tied.
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Hrolf The Ganger

27 Jul 18 4.18pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

What is my argument?

Apologies but I can't answer because I have just been yellow carded.

My hands are tied.

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silvertop Portishead 27 Jul 18 5.16pm
Originally posted by becky I think people are still aware of it given that after 5 years (2020), all the immigrants to Europe, especially the large numbers to Germany, will be eligible for EU passports and then have free movement across the nations..... we will leave in 2019. Edited by becky (27 Jul 2018 1.07pm) That was Nigel Farage's point; the one he re-emphasised with that poster. It was a more honest tactic than the one about Turkey which was absolutely bogus. However, not by that much. Why would anyone leave a prosperous and powerful country like Germany where they have taken 5 years to acclimatise, get jobs, have their kids settled in schools etc. to come to another less well-off country? Of the 1 million, how many in % terms do you think would go through another upheaval? I am guessing some - probably those with strong family connections where they will be able to settle quickly. But not enough to make any material difference to our lives. The vast majority of EU citizens coming here are far more likely to be French bankers, Danish pharmaceutical engineers, Czech plumbers or Romanian fruit pickers. However, the sort of immigrants who get posters on here frothing at the mouth will be arriving directly from non-EU countries. That flow will not be remotely stemmed by us leaving the EU.
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silvertop

Portishead 27 Jul 18 5.16pm

Originally posted by becky

I think people are still aware of it given that after 5 years (2020), all the immigrants to Europe, especially the large numbers to Germany, will be eligible for EU passports and then have free movement across the nations..... we will leave in 2019.

Edited by becky (27 Jul 2018 1.07pm)

That was Nigel Farage's point; the one he re-emphasised with that poster. It was a more honest tactic than the one about Turkey which was absolutely bogus. However, not by that much. Why would anyone leave a prosperous and powerful country like Germany where they have taken 5 years to acclimatise, get jobs, have their kids settled in schools etc. to come to another less well-off country? Of the 1 million, how many in % terms do you think would go through another upheaval? I am guessing some - probably those with strong family connections where they will be able to settle quickly. But not enough to make any material difference to our lives.

The vast majority of EU citizens coming here are far more likely to be French bankers, Danish pharmaceutical engineers, Czech plumbers or Romanian fruit pickers. However, the sort of immigrants who get posters on here frothing at the mouth will be arriving directly from non-EU countries. That flow will not be remotely stemmed by us leaving the EU.

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elgrande bedford 27 Jul 18 5.58pm
So Gary lineker thinks we should have a second referendum. Is this the same Gary lineker that said politicians should keep out of football during the world cup. Keep your opinions to yourself t***,you are being paid by the British taxpayers,some would say political bias by the BBC. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.
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elgrande

bedford 27 Jul 18 5.58pm

So Gary lineker thinks we should have a second referendum.

Is this the same Gary lineker that said politicians should keep out of football during the world cup.

Keep your opinions to yourself t***,you are being paid by the British taxpayers,some would say political bias by the BBC.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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davenotamonkey 27 Jul 18 6.29pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow It's an interesting article - thanks. Specifically talking about section 4 on 'it is undemocratic', the article does acknowledge that "when the facts change radically" or "if the Brexit process results in circumstances that couldn't have been reasonably forseen", so I guess this is where the disagreement from those calling for the 2nd referendum would be. Indeed. And he cites the example of joining a trade bloc that then transforms into a federal state. It cannot possibly be argued that the terms and basis upon which we remained in the EC bear any resemblance to the EU as it is now. It is therefore entirely legitimate to ask: "are you still OK with this relationship, given how much it's changed?". Can we really say the same of what has changed in the 2 years since we voted to leave? "Oh, it's really quite annoying and difficult to negotiate with these intransigent EU ideologues" is not one such change. Nor is "..but Leave cheated and overspent and the RUSSIANS!!" What has changed in our (or other EU27 "members" contractual rights and obligations under the EU in the past 2 years? Apart from more ratcheting of power away from parliaments, and development of the "dangerous fantasy" EU army, not a lot has changed. Those clamoring for a new referendum to undo the one they don't like are about 40 years premature.
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davenotamonkey

27 Jul 18 6.29pm

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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

It's an interesting article - thanks.

Indeed. And he cites the example of joining a trade bloc that then transforms into a federal state.

It cannot possibly be argued that the terms and basis upon which we remained in the EC bear any resemblance to the EU as it is now. It is therefore entirely legitimate to ask: "are you still OK with this relationship, given how much it's changed?".

Can we really say the same of what has changed in the 2 years since we voted to leave?

"Oh, it's really quite annoying and difficult to negotiate with these intransigent EU ideologues" is not one such change.

Nor is "..but Leave cheated and overspent and the RUSSIANS!!"

What has changed in our (or other EU27 "members" contractual rights and obligations under the EU in the past 2 years? Apart from more ratcheting of power away from parliaments, and development of the "dangerous fantasy" EU army, not a lot has changed.

Those clamoring for a new referendum to undo the one they don't like are about 40 years premature.

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