Joshua Fight

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Hrolf The Ganger 25 Sep 18 10.12pm
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol well Ali did it to Foreman remember? Everyone thought Foreman would smash Ali into kingdom come but he had the infamous rope-a-dope strategy ! Foreman and Tyson, similar boxers, box them at distance, work the jab, wear them down in the later rounds Not remotely similar. Tyson was short and fast while George was big and slow. There is no way that Ali could rope a dope Tyson. The people who had the most success against Tyson are the ones that could lean on him and tie him up. It comes down to a question of being hit or not. As Ali once suggested, if he danced and avoided Tyson he might win but if Tyson caught up with him, it would be goodnight. It's good to watch Ali at his best. A fine example is his fight with Cleveland Williams. I do question the quality of some of his oponents in that era but he did make the ring monster Sonny Liston look stupid. Was Liston as good as Tyson? Not in my opinion. Was Tyson better than Joe Fraizer? Certainly not as determined or with the same work rate but far more dangerous as a puncher. I would love to see Tyson of 1986 V Ali of 1966. Now that would be a fight. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (25 Sep 2018 10.14pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

25 Sep 18 10.12pm

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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

well Ali did it to Foreman remember? Everyone thought Foreman would smash Ali into kingdom come but he had the infamous rope-a-dope strategy !

Foreman and Tyson, similar boxers, box them at distance, work the jab, wear them down in the later rounds

Not remotely similar. Tyson was short and fast while George was big and slow.
There is no way that Ali could rope a dope Tyson. The people who had the most success against Tyson are the ones that could lean on him and tie him up. It comes down to a question of being hit or not. As Ali once suggested, if he danced and avoided Tyson he might win but if Tyson caught up with him, it would be goodnight.

It's good to watch Ali at his best. A fine example is his fight with Cleveland Williams. I do question the quality of some of his oponents in that era but he did make the ring monster Sonny Liston look stupid.
Was Liston as good as Tyson? Not in my opinion.
Was Tyson better than Joe Fraizer? Certainly not as determined or with the same work rate but far more dangerous as a puncher.
I would love to see Tyson of 1986 V Ali of 1966. Now that would be a fight.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (25 Sep 2018 10.14pm)

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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 26 Sep 18 12.03am
It won't be a true heavyweight fight until it's held in Las Vegas or Madison Sq Garden....... Pro USA & Israel
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Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 26 Sep 18 12.03am

It won't be a true heavyweight fight until it's held in Las Vegas or Madison Sq Garden.......

Pro USA & Israel

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Stirlingsays 26 Sep 18 12.09am
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol well Ali did it to Foreman remember? Everyone thought Foreman would smash Ali into kingdom come but he had the infamous rope-a-dope strategy ! Foreman and Tyson, similar boxers, box them at distance, work the jab, wear them down in the later rounds Ali was lucky in that fight and took one hell of a beating to tire out Foreman......No way would he have knocked out Foreman in normal circumstances....he was knackered. Ali continually refused Foreman a rematch. I'm pretty convinced that Foreman would have won it if one had occurred. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Sep 18 12.09am

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

well Ali did it to Foreman remember? Everyone thought Foreman would smash Ali into kingdom come but he had the infamous rope-a-dope strategy !

Foreman and Tyson, similar boxers, box them at distance, work the jab, wear them down in the later rounds

Ali was lucky in that fight and took one hell of a beating to tire out Foreman......No way would he have knocked out Foreman in normal circumstances....he was knackered.

Ali continually refused Foreman a rematch.

I'm pretty convinced that Foreman would have won it if one had occurred.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 26 Sep 18 12.15am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I would love to see Tyson of 1986 V Ali of 1966. Now that would be a fight. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (25 Sep 2018 10.14pm) I don't see him stopping Ali.....and I don't see him beating him on points. And he wouldn't have got near Ali in his prime. Tyson v Liston would have been good.....Or seventies Foreman.....Wow. Early Tyson v Early Lewis would have been good. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Sep 18 12.15am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I would love to see Tyson of 1986 V Ali of 1966. Now that would be a fight.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (25 Sep 2018 10.14pm)

I don't see him stopping Ali.....and I don't see him beating him on points.

And he wouldn't have got near Ali in his prime.

Tyson v Liston would have been good.....Or seventies Foreman.....Wow.

Early Tyson v Early Lewis would have been good.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Pussay Patrol 26 Sep 18 6.18am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I don't see him stopping Ali.....and I don't see him beating him on points. And he wouldn't have got near Ali in his prime. Tyson v Liston would have been good.....Or seventies Foreman.....Wow. Early Tyson v Early Lewis would have been good. Lewis'weakness was he was a bit chinny, if he couldn't recover from good shots from Rahman and McCall there's no way he'd get up from a Tyson bomb. That's why I think Holyfield in his prime beats Tyson in his prime, he could take a battering. Holyfield beat Tyson 2-0 anyway so it's not even up for debate Paua oouaaranc� Ir� chiyeah Ish� gal� ma ba oo ah
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Pussay Patrol

26 Sep 18 6.18am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I don't see him stopping Ali.....and I don't see him beating him on points.

And he wouldn't have got near Ali in his prime.

Tyson v Liston would have been good.....Or seventies Foreman.....Wow.

Early Tyson v Early Lewis would have been good.

Lewis'weakness was he was a bit chinny, if he couldn't recover from good shots from Rahman and McCall there's no way he'd get up from a Tyson bomb. That's why I think Holyfield in his prime beats Tyson in his prime, he could take a battering. Holyfield beat Tyson 2-0 anyway so it's not even up for debate

Paua oouaaranc� Ir� chiyeah Ish� gal� ma ba oo ah

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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Sep 18 11.32am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I don't see him stopping Ali.....and I don't see him beating him on points. And he wouldn't have got near Ali in his prime. Tyson v Liston would have been good.....Or seventies Foreman.....Wow. Early Tyson v Early Lewis would have been good. Ali would need to dance, throw combinations and avoid getting hit. If Tyson closed him down then it would be a painful night for Ali. You have to think that if Buster Douglas could beat a poor Tyson then the best Ali might be too much for the best Tyson at least half the time. I agree that Ali was fortunate against Foreman. The circumstances beat Foreman as much as the punches. It was a one-off miracle. George did lose the plot after that defeat and was never the same. I'd like to see early Tyson v any other top fighter. A shame that he was in a bad place v Holyfield and had lost his sparkle v Lewis. I think it is more reasonable to just list the top fighters rather than say who would beat who. They could probably all beat each other on different days. For me it is Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Holmes. I have never been an advocate of Marciano despite what others say. His style is far too crude to trouble the likes of Ali or Holmes and he would have been obliterated by the power of Tyson or Lewis. Watching Ali v Archie Moore is a good comparison. Moore was old then but his crouching style was similar to Marciano. I don't think Marciano would have done much better unless he caught Ali in a Henry Cooper moment.
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Hrolf The Ganger

26 Sep 18 11.32am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I don't see him stopping Ali.....and I don't see him beating him on points.

And he wouldn't have got near Ali in his prime.

Tyson v Liston would have been good.....Or seventies Foreman.....Wow.

Early Tyson v Early Lewis would have been good.

Ali would need to dance, throw combinations and avoid getting hit. If Tyson closed him down then it would be a painful night for Ali. You have to think that if Buster Douglas could beat a poor Tyson then the best Ali might be too much for the best Tyson at least half the time.
I agree that Ali was fortunate against Foreman. The circumstances beat Foreman as much as the punches. It was a one-off miracle. George did lose the plot after that defeat and was never the same.

I'd like to see early Tyson v any other top fighter.
A shame that he was in a bad place v Holyfield and had lost his sparkle v Lewis. I think it is more reasonable to just list the top fighters rather than say who would beat who. They could probably all beat each other on different days.
For me it is Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Holmes. I have never been an advocate of Marciano despite what others say. His style is far too crude to trouble the likes of Ali or Holmes and he would have been obliterated by the power of Tyson or Lewis.
Watching Ali v Archie Moore is a good comparison. Moore was old then but his crouching style was similar to Marciano. I don't think Marciano would have done much better unless he caught Ali in a Henry Cooper moment.

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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Sep 18 11.39am
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol Lewis'weakness was he was a bit chinny, if he couldn't recover from good shots from Rahman and McCall there's no way he'd get up from a Tyson bomb. That's why I think Holyfield in his prime beats Tyson in his prime, he could take a battering. Holyfield beat Tyson 2-0 anyway so it's not even up for debate I'd say it was his attitude. Took fights lightly sometimes and paid the price. On his best day, he was potentially the best ever and he avenged those defeats. Against him was a lack of great fighters around in his era. Only Holyfield and a failing Tyson. Riddick Bowe never got a shot despite beating Holyfield twice.
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Hrolf The Ganger

26 Sep 18 11.39am

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

Lewis'weakness was he was a bit chinny, if he couldn't recover from good shots from Rahman and McCall there's no way he'd get up from a Tyson bomb. That's why I think Holyfield in his prime beats Tyson in his prime, he could take a battering. Holyfield beat Tyson 2-0 anyway so it's not even up for debate

I'd say it was his attitude. Took fights lightly sometimes and paid the price. On his best day, he was potentially the best ever and he avenged those defeats.
Against him was a lack of great fighters around in his era. Only Holyfield and a failing Tyson. Riddick Bowe never got a shot despite beating Holyfield twice.

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 26 Sep 18 11.53am
If we're playing hypotheticals, I wonder how the great Cuban heavyweights, Stevenson and Savon would have faired in the pro ranks. Many thought Stevenson had the beating of Ali and Savin Tyson. Both three time Olympic champs! "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 26 Sep 18 11.53am

If we're playing hypotheticals, I wonder how the great Cuban heavyweights, Stevenson and Savon would have faired in the pro ranks.

Many thought Stevenson had the beating of Ali and Savin Tyson.

Both three time Olympic champs!

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Sep 18 12.05pm
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle If we're playing hypotheticals, I wonder how the great Cuban heavyweights, Stevenson and Savon would have faired in the pro ranks. Many thought Stevenson had the beating of Ali and Savin Tyson. Both three time Olympic champs! We will never know, but amateur boxing is a lot different to professional.
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Hrolf The Ganger

26 Sep 18 12.05pm

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

If we're playing hypotheticals, I wonder how the great Cuban heavyweights, Stevenson and Savon would have faired in the pro ranks.

Many thought Stevenson had the beating of Ali and Savin Tyson.

Both three time Olympic champs!

We will never know, but amateur boxing is a lot different to professional.

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youngpalacefan111 26 Sep 18 4.01pm
Really enjoying reading this thread, I will add this gem to [Link] Teddy Atlas on the JRE podcast discussing Tyson, if you can watch the whole podcast its brilliant.
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youngpalacefan111

26 Sep 18 4.01pm

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Really enjoying reading this thread, I will add this gem to [Link]

Teddy Atlas on the JRE podcast discussing Tyson, if you can watch the whole podcast its brilliant.

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youngpalacefan111 26 Sep 18 4.05pm
Also how good would Ali, Foreman and the likes of been with the peds tyson and the current heavyweights are on. Such a game changer, just look at ufc after USADA came fighters completely changed.
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youngpalacefan111

26 Sep 18 4.05pm

Also how good would Ali, Foreman and the likes of been with the peds tyson and the current heavyweights are on. Such a game changer, just look at ufc after USADA came fighters completely changed.

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Lyons550 Shirley 26 Sep 18 4.13pm
Originally posted by Jimenez It won't be a true heavyweight fight until it's held in Las Vegas or Madison Sq Garden....... Hahaha, fading venues...nowhere near big enough for a AJ fight. The problem is the American boxing pool has been poor for the last 10years (certainly in compariosn with the 80's / early 90's) and as such those venues are becoming less relevant as the months go by.. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 26 Sep 18 4.13pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

It won't be a true heavyweight fight until it's held in Las Vegas or Madison Sq Garden.......

Hahaha, fading venues...nowhere near big enough for a AJ fight. The problem is the American boxing pool has been poor for the last 10years (certainly in compariosn with the 80's / early 90's) and as such those venues are becoming less relevant as the months go by..

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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