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April 19 2024 1.41am

Joshua Fight

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View rikz's Profile rikz Flag Croydon 26 Sep 18 4.22pm Send a Private Message to rikz Add rikz as a friend

It's boring comparing fighters from different generations, it's all hypothetical, the elite of any generation would hold themselves against anyone past or present. All ifs and buts but people usually look back through rose tinted glasses, so today's fighters are at a disadvantage.

I will say in the heavyweights it's a bit different because of the size of today's, anyone who thinks a 6'2 14 stone man would not be at a massive disadvantage against someone over 6'6 and 18 stone is just crazy. It would be the equivalent of Khan fighting a super middleweight.

Tyson, he is hugely underrated as a defensive fighter and in his prime was great but is that not another trait of a great fighter ? reaching the top and still having the drive and determination to be the best ?

That's why mayweather is so underrated I don't think people realise the guy was at the pinnacle of the sport and still dominated for maybe 8 years after reaching it. Up at half 4 every morning, always in amazing shape, forget what you hear, the guy lived a clean life, he wouldn't have dominated otherwise. That's why for me Tyson will never be regarded as an all time great, he hit the top and just didn't have it in him to remain there. Tho within 20 years time no fighter will be fit to lace mayweathers gloves so he will finally get the accolade he deserves.

 

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View youngpalacefan111's Profile youngpalacefan111 Flag 26 Sep 18 4.23pm Send a Private Message to youngpalacefan111 Add youngpalacefan111 as a friend

Originally posted by Lyons550


Hahaha, fading venues...nowhere near big enough for a AJ fight. The problem is the American boxing pool has been poor for the last 10years (certainly in compariosn with the 80's / early 90's) and as such those venues are becoming less relevant as the months go by..

All the best USA heavyweight talent are going to NBA, NFL, and the left overs have a choice of boxing or UFC, Wilder failed at basketball so chose boxing.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 26 Sep 18 5.05pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

Lewis'weakness was he was a bit chinny, if he couldn't recover from good shots from Rahman and McCall there's no way he'd get up from a Tyson bomb. That's why I think Holyfield in his prime beats Tyson in his prime, he could take a battering. Holyfield beat Tyson 2-0 anyway so it's not even up for debate

I don't think Lewis was chinny but rather his chin was about average......Chinny suggests that a figher can't take a good shot. Those big power shots that knocked out Lewis would have knocked over most.

Almost all boxers suffer tkos and get stopped. Was Tyson chinny because he was stopped four times compared to Lewis's two?

No, Tyson wasn't chinny and either was Lewis.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 26 Sep 18 5.11pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I don't think Lewis was chinny but rather his chin was about average......Chinny suggests that a figher can't take a good shot. Those big power shots that knocked out Lewis would have knocked over most.

Almost all boxers suffer tkos and get stopped. Was Tyson chinny because he was stopped four times compared to Lewis's two?

No, Tyson wasn't chinny and either was Lewis.

Talking of chinny I have a hunch that Tyson Fury is a bit that way, just a hunch.

I saw an earlier fight of his and a cruiser weight stuck one on him and he wobbled. I think a bigger guy would have knocked him out. He recovered and beat the guy. I think if Wilder does hit him with a clean shot he goes down. Looking forward to that fight I think it will be a good one if you dislike Fury.

 


One more point

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Pussay Patrol Flag 26 Sep 18 7.09pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I don't think Lewis was chinny but rather his chin was about average......Chinny suggests that a figher can't take a good shot. Those big power shots that knocked out Lewis would have knocked over most.

Almost all boxers suffer tkos and get stopped. Was Tyson chinny because he was stopped four times compared to Lewis's two?

No, Tyson wasn't chinny and either was Lewis.

The point was Joshua took that bomb from Klitschko, went down and was wobbly for 2 or 3 rounds, but he turned it round. Lewis in a similar situation v McCall AND Rahman showed his vulnerability and did not recover. If Joshua landed a big bomb on Lewis, odds are he wouldn't survive

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 26 Sep 18 8.10pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

The point was Joshua took that bomb from Klitschko, went down and was wobbly for 2 or 3 rounds, but he turned it round. Lewis in a similar situation v McCall AND Rahman showed his vulnerability and did not recover. If Joshua landed a big bomb on Lewis, odds are he wouldn't survive

AJ recovered from his knockdown because Klitschko didn't have the juice to finish him off.
If you think that AJ is currently in the same class as Lewis then you are a victim of the SKY hype.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 26 Sep 18 8.28pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by rikz

It's boring comparing fighters from different generations, it's all hypothetical, the elite of any generation would hold themselves against anyone past or present. All ifs and buts but people usually look back through rose tinted glasses, so today's fighters are at a disadvantage.

I will say in the heavyweights it's a bit different because of the size of today's, anyone who thinks a 6'2 14 stone man would not be at a massive disadvantage against someone over 6'6 and 18 stone is just crazy. It would be the equivalent of Khan fighting a super middleweight.

Tyson was 5' 10'' and 15 stone. Not a problem for him.
You can;t just be big. You have to be big and good. Ask
Tyson, he is hugely underrated as a defensive fighter and in his prime was great but is that not another trait of a great fighter ? reaching the top and still having the drive and determination to be the best ?

That's why mayweather is so underrated I don't think people realise the guy was at the pinnacle of the sport and still dominated for maybe 8 years after reaching it. Up at half 4 every morning, always in amazing shape, forget what you hear, the guy lived a clean life, he wouldn't have dominated otherwise. That's why for me Tyson will never be regarded as an all time great, he hit the top and just didn't have it in him to remain there. Tho within 20 years time no fighter will be fit to lace mayweathers gloves so he will finally get the accolade he deserves.

Tyson was 5'10'' and 15 stone. Wasn't a problem. He had more problems against bigger fighters but that was not his undoing.
You can't just be big, you have to be big and good. Primo Carnera was big 6' 5'' but he got battered by Max Bear and Joe Louis who were over 3 inches shorter.

Certainly, an old fighter of 13/14 stone would struggle against a superheavyweight of today but if they were to fight in some parallel dimention,I'm sure that they would bulk up a bit first.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 26 Sep 18 9.29pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

The point was Joshua took that bomb from Klitschko, went down and was wobbly for 2 or 3 rounds, but he turned it round. Lewis in a similar situation v McCall AND Rahman showed his vulnerability and did not recover. If Joshua landed a big bomb on Lewis, odds are he wouldn't survive


Well, he was up well before the count ended in the McCall fight and could have continued.

Joshua wasn't much better and was allowed to.

I think it's fair to say that fighters with average chins are the majority of fighters. If they get tagged with big bombs they are likely to go down.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Pussay Patrol Flag 26 Sep 18 10.12pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

AJ recovered from his knockdown because Klitschko didn't have the juice to finish him off.
If you think that AJ is currently in the same class as Lewis then you are a victim of the SKY hype.

No you just have a nostalgic view of heavyweight boxing from it's 80's heyday and cannot appreciate the qualities of current fighters

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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View rikz's Profile rikz Flag Croydon 27 Sep 18 12.00am Send a Private Message to rikz Add rikz as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Tyson was 5'10'' and 15 stone. Wasn't a problem. He had more problems against bigger fighters but that was not his undoing.
You can't just be big, you have to be big and good. Primo Carnera was big 6' 5'' but he got battered by Max Bear and Joe Louis who were over 3 inches shorter.

Certainly, an old fighter of 13/14 stone would struggle against a superheavyweight of today but if they were to fight in some parallel dimention,I'm sure that they would bulk up a bit first.

Like I said Tyson was massively underrated as a defensive fighter probably only Pernell Whitaker had better head movement than him from fighters I can think of.

Exactly you've used primo carnera as an example. Nothing more than a freak show and one of the worst heavyweight champions of all time, alongside valuev both are absolutely terrible and became heavyweight champion. That shows how much of an advantage height and weight are. If either were average size for heavyweight at the time neither would have got anywhere near winning a title.

Massive difference when you have someone like Joshua or fury who both know how to actually box and both technically good enough to have successful amateur careers. Fury would actually toy with them they wouldn't get close. Joshua is a bit stiff and has a pretty poor jab but that's because he can get away with it. If he was disciplined enough he would still be technically good enough to box on the back foot.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 Sep 18 12.54pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

No you just have a nostalgic view of heavyweight boxing from it's 80's heyday and cannot appreciate the qualities of current fighters

Not at all. I just know the difference between natural ability and entirely taught ability. Too many modern heavyweights are all bulk and no talent.
No one in the current crop could have lived with the Klitschko brothers in their prime and a prime Lennox Lewis would beat both of them. Lennox beat Vitali when he was in bad shape in what was a great fight.

Who would win out of AJ and Bruno I wonder? The answer is probably, whoever landed the first heavy punch.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 Sep 18 1.11pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by rikz

Like I said Tyson was massively underrated as a defensive fighter probably only Pernell Whitaker had better head movement than him from fighters I can think of.

Exactly you've used primo carnera as an example. Nothing more than a freak show and one of the worst heavyweight champions of all time, alongside valuev both are absolutely terrible and became heavyweight champion. That shows how much of an advantage height and weight are. If either were average size for heavyweight at the time neither would have got anywhere near winning a title.

Massive difference when you have someone like Joshua or fury who both know how to actually box and both technically good enough to have successful amateur careers. Fury would actually toy with them they wouldn't get close. Joshua is a bit stiff and has a pretty poor jab but that's because he can get away with it. If he was disciplined enough he would still be technically good enough to box on the back foot.


I agree about Carnera and Valuev although only Valuev was a true freak. I used that example to illustrate that you have to be big and good and not just big to be an elite boxer. I think that AJ is too vulnerable right now to be in that category. I will judge AJ when he has fought someone young, talented and hungry who hits him on the chin. Obviously, Wilder and Fury are the current rivals to his throne and beating them would make him the best of this generation.
Tyson Fury is a very large talented boxer, the most talented of the crop, but I fear he has shot his bolt. A guy like him needs to keep fit all the time or else he lapses into his natural flabby state. It is hard to keep recovering from bouts of inactivity for a guy like him. He is still relatively young but with the layoff and his issues, we might have seen the best of him already.

 

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