Yes really.....I can see we aren't going to agree......on this sensitive issue at least.

When you say feminism we are talking about a huge range of takes on it.

More freedom for women to pursue their life choices isn't a bad thing......However a foetus isn't the 'property' of the women, in my view. It is the product of two people, not one and hence I don't believe the area of 'feminism' is a well fitting area for this topic.

Also, I'll just take you up on how you phrased that.....Essentially you say it's sad that the mother died instead of the foetus......Yet she got to live a life, however tragically it ended.....The foetus didn't. The whole situation was tragic.

Also, not being pro choice isn't a black and white issue. I only changed my position on abolition in recent years having been pro choice for most of my adult life......Personally I accept abolition in limited situations now...and I want the time limit reduced.

And yes.....I found the behaviour of those women at that rule changing disgusting.

Frankly these are all unrelated to the issue at hand and could and would have been changed regardless of laws on abolition.

The easing of the divorce laws can come under significant criticism......It may be liberating for the individual and indeed sensible.....However holistically it can be pointed at as having been harmful for society......More children growing up without fathers has not had a better affect.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Nov 2018 12.00pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

try having an irish wife.

they dont know that slavery has been long abolished, when it comes to working on the home.
although you do get a top sunday meal, as there is apparently no such thing as an irish girl that cannot cook.

Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents?
Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.

I could say that, yes. you could say that, yes. Kind of sums up anything about the history of Anglo-Irish relations.

Red and Blue Army!

I do understand people with different viewpoints on abortion as it is an emotive issue. The foetus in the case I mentioned was not going to survive - making the death of the woman all the more tragic. The Irish constitution did not necessarily allow for termination even when both were going to die - well as far as the doctors in this case interpreted it. I presume you saw the case - it did not necessarily lead straight to the abortion referendum but it was a big part of it. The name of the woman was something like Sunita Halipinar, in Galway.

As for the other points, they are entirely relevant as Ireland had a recent history of unequal treatment of women. There was a feminist backlash, eventually - probably explaining exuberant celebrations. I didn't watch the celebrations and thought a lot of the campaign and media coverage was bias and over the top. However, it meant so much to many women that I know that I considered it to be their choice on how things went. As it was a constitutional vote I did not have a say - as I am not an Irish citizen. Brexit has not made me go running to change my passport - unlike so many others.
As for an unborn child being a man's property too - I agree - and it is a difficult area to work out exactly what could be done about that in regards to equal rights over an unborn child. What I will say is that there was every indication that men voted in favour of changing the law too - so they did have a say in some way, quite rightly.

Red and Blue Army!

I can't stand them either; shame we didn't win. I usually make the roast. I'm having a beer to celebrate the point and the England win in the rugby.

Red and Blue Army!

The history of Anglo-Irish relations could be summarised by one nation's continual brutal suppression of a neighbour that merely wanted its own independence and never even remotely represented a threat to it.