Lucas Perez from West Ham suggestion
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 NickinOX  Sailing country. 22 Jan 19 2.59pm |
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I’ve liked the look of him when I’ve seen him play.
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I'mPalace Till I Die  22 Jan 19 3.19pm |
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If we could get him for £4M and on less wages I would say he's worth a punt. Might fit our team/style of play better than Arsenal/West Ham, who knows
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| dp Tunbridge Wells 22 Jan 19 5.01pm |
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Originally posted by I'mPalace Till I Die
If we could get him for £4M and on less wages I would say he's worth a punt. Might fit our team/style of play better than Arsenal/West Ham, who knows I don’t think the £4m has any real basis in fact, it is just a guess of what they would accept.
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| mattteo 22 Jan 19 7.08pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
He’s completely flopped at both PL clubs he’s played for - the goals and assists you’ve quoted in the last a few years are nearly exclusively in cup completions - his PL record is atrocious. In 16/17 he made 20 PL Apps for Arsenal, starting 11 of them, and scored 1 goal.
What if I tell you he didn't play more than 500 minutes in his usual position as striker and still managed to score 4 goals?? At Arsenal they kept on using him only as winger. Kind of hard to score from that position (at least as much as center forwards do). Try putting Benteke on the wing and see of he scores that much. Oh, wait... This is EXACTLY the kind of player who is cheap because people don't realize that his big number of matches is actually a small number of minutes and his value is kept down BECAUSE of that statistic you give of just 20 appearances and 1 goal making people suspect him a flop. This is exactly why people like me are good at this job, observing what others can't, seeing a player who others don't and getting him on the cheap when his value should be much, much higher and he WILL score BIG TIME if he is played, this I could almost guarantee if I were a scout.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 22 Jan 19 7.27pm |
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Originally posted by mattteo
What if I tell you he didn't play more than 500 minutes in his usual position as striker and still managed to score 4 goals?? At Arsenal they kept on using him only as winger. Kind of hard to score from that position (at least as much as center forwards do). Try putting Benteke on the wing and see of he scores that much. Oh, wait... This is EXACTLY the kind of player who is cheap because people don't realize that his big number of matches is actually a small number of minutes and his value is kept down BECAUSE of that statistic you give of just 20 appearances and 1 goal making people suspect him a flop. This is exactly why people like me are good at this job, observing what others can't, seeing a player who others don't and getting him on the cheap when his value should be much, much higher and he WILL score BIG TIME if he is played, this I could almost guarantee if I were a scout.
I am reminded of the saying "If you don't blow your own trumpet,someone else will use it as a spitoon".
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 22 Jan 19 7.31pm |
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Originally posted by mattteo
What if I tell you he didn't play more than 500 minutes in his usual position as striker and still managed to score 4 goals?? At Arsenal they kept on using him only as winger. Kind of hard to score from that position (at least as much as center forwards do). Try putting Benteke on the wing and see of he scores that much. Oh, wait... This is EXACTLY the kind of player who is cheap because people don't realize that his big number of matches is actually a small number of minutes and his value is kept down BECAUSE of that statistic you give of just 20 appearances and 1 goal making people suspect him a flop. This is exactly why people like me are good at this job, observing what others can't, seeing a player who others don't and getting him on the cheap when his value should be much, much higher and he WILL score BIG TIME if he is played, this I could almost guarantee if I were a scout.
To challenge your points; You introduced the idea of Perez's versatility in your OP, yet now you argue it's unfair to judge him when not played up front - which is it? There are so many flaws with your obsession with minutes/goals as the predominant comparative measure; Why do you think he has so few minutes in the PL? Could it be because he wasn't deemed good enough by his managers and coaches? Could it be that he has a bad injury record? Poor attitude? All of these are factors in judging a player, and all contribute to how many minutes they get on the pitch - his numbers on that front are pathetic. Nearly always, the best players play the most minutes in their best positions - if you're telling me the bloke has only played 500 minutes in his preferred position in 3 years, that is a million miles from being a positive. I'm asking why on earth is that the case? Attackers coming off the bench are generally bought on because their team is chasing a game - naturally, their goal/minute stats can be massively inflated because of this. Your point about 'people like me being good at this job' - what job do you do exactly? I was under the impression you're not professionally involved at all? The arrogance of your posts is really something to behold.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 22 Jan 19 7.36pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
To challenge your points; You introduced the idea of Perez's versatility in your OP, yet now you argue it's unfair to judge him when not played up front - which is it? There are so many flaws with your obsession with minutes/goals as the predominant comparative measure; Why do you think he has so few minutes in the PL? Could it be because he wasn't deemed good enough by his managers and coaches? Could it be that he has a bad injury record? Poor attitude? All of these are factors in judging a player, and all contribute to how many minutes they get on the pitch - his numbers on that front are pathetic. Nearly always, the best players play the most minutes in their best positions - if you're telling me the bloke has only played 500 minutes in his preferred position in 3 years, that is a million miles from being a positive. I'm asking why on earth is that the case? Attackers coming off the bench are generally bought on because their team is chasing a game - naturally, their goal/minute stats can be massively inflated because of this. Your point about 'people like me being good at this job' - what job do you do exactly? I was under the impression you're not professionally involved at all? The arrogance of your posts is really something to behold. Some excellent points raised.
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| JohnB 22 Jan 19 7.51pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
To challenge your points; You introduced the idea of Perez's versatility in your OP, yet now you argue it's unfair to judge him when not played up front - which is it? There are so many flaws with your obsession with minutes/goals as the predominant comparative measure; Why do you think he has so few minutes in the PL? Could it be because he wasn't deemed good enough by his managers and coaches? Could it be that he has a bad injury record? Poor attitude? All of these are factors in judging a player, and all contribute to how many minutes they get on the pitch - his numbers on that front are pathetic. Nearly always, the best players play the most minutes in their best positions - if you're telling me the bloke has only played 500 minutes in his preferred position in 3 years, that is a million miles from being a positive. I'm asking why on earth is that the case? Attackers coming off the bench are generally bought on because their team is chasing a game - naturally, their goal/minute stats can be massively inflated because of this. Your point about 'people like me being good at this job' - what job do you do exactly? I was under the impression you're not professionally involved at all? The arrogance of your posts is really something to behold. If only there was a mic drop emoji
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| dp Tunbridge Wells 22 Jan 19 8.03pm |
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Originally posted by mattteo
He has not flopped at all. This is exactly the type of thinking that is damaging, measuring player according to the number of matches. What if he just comes on for 4-5 minutes in those matches? Does it still count as 20 matches?? What if I tell you he didn't play more than 500 minutes in his usual position as striker and still managed to score 4 goals?? At Arsenal they kept on using him only as winger. Kind of hard to score from that position (at least as much as center forwards do). Try putting Benteke on the wing and see of he scores that much. Oh, wait... This is EXACTLY the kind of player who is cheap because people don't realize that his big number of matches is actually a small number of minutes and his value is kept down BECAUSE of that statistic you give of just 20 appearances and 1 goal making people suspect him a flop. This is exactly why people like me are good at this job, observing what others can't, seeing a player who others don't and getting him on the cheap when his value should be much, much higher and he WILL score BIG TIME if he is played, this I could almost guarantee if I were a scout.
Edited by mattteo (22 Jan 2019 7.10pm) Mattteo, I do love your posts. I love the fact that you honestly think that you are one of only a few people who can read these statistics and that you have somehow seen something that both have the upper hand West Ham and Palace have missed. I wish I had the same blind faith in my abilities as you do in yours.
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cryrst  The garden of England 22 Jan 19 8.43pm |
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There is a brad pitt movie based on i think the anerheim angels where their players are all recruited on stats.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 22 Jan 19 8.54pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
There is a brad pitt movie based on i think the anerheim angels where their players are all recruited on stats. You are referring to Moneyball it did work because he was able to pick up bargains that traditional scouts overlooked. However like everything else once it became know they all adopted it.
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| NickinOX Sailing country. 22 Jan 19 8.58pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
There is a brad pitt movie based on i think the anerheim angels where their players are all recruited on stats. Moneyball was the film, and the Boston Red Sox were the team. The point many people are making regards Matteo's selective use of stats in conjunction with claims that his selective use of stats proves something. It doesn't, it merely provides a statistical guide to what happened in the past. It is useful as a tool, among other tools, to see if a player performs as expected. That ebig said, simply stating x player has y goals in z minutes, does little to tell us if said player contributes to team play, helps the team defend, or helps others to score through their movement, etc. He also claims only he had the foresight to see x y or z but was ignored. This often ignores the thousands of players he has said will be good, but never seem to be heard of outside of his posts. That should tell us something. If he wants to post on here good for him, but one should not expect to make such bold claims without any kind of response. After all, this is a discussion board is it not?
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