You are here: Home > Message Board > Palace Talk > Robbed by referees 18/19
December 15 2019 8.50am

Robbed by referees 18/19

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 5 of 5 ę First< 1 2 3 4 5

This forum is sponsored by

Football Index

Sponsor a forum or Advertise on the HOL!

 

View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 11 Mar 19 9.19am Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Referees across the board are terrible. I cannot think of even one who can do the job adequately, let alone exceptionally. Martin Atkinson evokes the least amount of pant shatting when you see his name, John Moss the most.

This is all down to the culture of refereeing: "Game management" rather than rule enforcement.

The difference between the Palaces of the world and the Uniteds of the world boils down to a difference in attitude towards this fact.
Whilst our players are left to rue bad decisions and flap arms, the players at the big clubs accept the fact that the refs are s*** and take advantage. They practice all manner of conning and deception. They have been told "if you get a touch you need to show us" so they hone their diving skills. That's just making the most of it.
Referees are concerned with "game management", so what do clever players like Ferandinho and Xhaka do? They rack up 10-15 niggly fouls a match which they know will go unpunished by the ref but will ruin any counter attack.

Refereeing isn't going to get better so we have to change our approach. The captain should ride the ref all game long, our players should put in the cynical fouls, and yes: we should be diving about all over the place. Whether you get the fk or get a card, just shrug your shoulders and get on with it. It's the public calling out they don't like, not the cheating.

Whilst I understand what you are saying it is this sort of attitude around football generally that is ruining the game. The dive because you can cheat a penalty, the professional foul because you know itís only a yellow, the rotational attacking of one player. Itís hardly the beautiful game any more is it? I have to disagree with your last paragraph. Itís the refs that need to change.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
ChrisGC Flag Wantage 11 Mar 19 11.43am

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Whilst I understand what you are saying it is this sort of attitude around football generally that is ruining the game. The dive because you can cheat a penalty, the professional foul because you know itís only a yellow, the rotational attacking of one player. Itís hardly the beautiful game any more is it? I have to disagree with your last paragraph. Itís the refs that need to change.

I totally agree, but referees can't even see that a problem exists yet, so they are a long, long way off even attempting to reverse the culture.

In the meantime by taking the moral high ground we only put ourselves at a disadvantage. The referees' association has directly instructed players to "show contact" (dive). I see nothing against the spirit of the game in following instruction.

The amount of points we lose to other teams taking advantage of this along with the amount of points we could get by smartening up ourselves makes it a necessary tactical approach for any quality manager out there.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
View MrCParrot's Profile MrCParrot Flag Taunton 11 Mar 19 12.33pm Send a Private Message to MrCParrot Add MrCParrot as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Remind me what the score was in the game at Brighton against ten men?

Remind me, did Murray dive trying to win a penalty and kick the ball out for a goal kick, which was given by 2 idiots (ref and lino) as a corner which led to the goal

I do get your point tho

 


Mr Cadbury's Parrot says "Hello"

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View MrCParrot's Profile MrCParrot Flag Taunton 11 Mar 19 12.40pm Send a Private Message to MrCParrot Add MrCParrot as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Referees across the board are terrible. I cannot think of even one who can do the job adequately, let alone exceptionally. Martin Atkinson evokes the least amount of pant shatting when you see his name, John Moss the most.

This is all down to the culture of refereeing: "Game management" rather than rule enforcement.

The difference between the Palaces of the world and the Uniteds of the world boils down to a difference in attitude towards this fact.
Whilst our players are left to rue bad decisions and flap arms, the players at the big clubs accept the fact that the refs are s*** and take advantage. They practice all manner of conning and deception. They have been told "if you get a touch you need to show us" so they hone their diving skills. That's just making the most of it.
Referees are concerned with "game management", so what do clever players like Ferandinho and Xhaka do? They rack up 10-15 niggly fouls a match which they know will go unpunished by the ref but will ruin any counter attack.

Refereeing isn't going to get better so we have to change our approach. The captain should ride the ref all game long, our players should put in the cynical fouls, and yes: we should be diving about all over the place. Whether you get the fk or get a card, just shrug your shoulders and get on with it. It's the public calling out they don't like, not the cheating.

Yep. I totally agree with this.

Neymar is the biggest cheat in football yet he is adored by millions. It will never end, so if you can't beat them join them.

After the AK challenge on Luka, he should have been sorted out with rotational fouling. Fight fire with fire.

Parrot

 


Mr Cadbury's Parrot says "Hello"

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Nobbybm's Profile Nobbybm Flag Dartford 11 Mar 19 4.26pm Send a Private Message to Nobbybm Add Nobbybm as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Referees across the board are terrible. I cannot think of even one who can do the job adequately, let alone exceptionally. Martin Atkinson evokes the least amount of pant shatting when you see his name, John Moss the most.

This is all down to the culture of refereeing: "Game management" rather than rule enforcement.

The difference between the Palaces of the world and the Uniteds of the world boils down to a difference in attitude towards this fact.
Whilst our players are left to rue bad decisions and flap arms, the players at the big clubs accept the fact that the refs are s*** and take advantage. They practice all manner of conning and deception. They have been told "if you get a touch you need to show us" so they hone their diving skills. That's just making the most of it.
Referees are concerned with "game management", so what do clever players like Ferandinho and Xhaka do? They rack up 10-15 niggly fouls a match which they know will go unpunished by the ref but will ruin any counter attack.

Refereeing isn't going to get better so we have to change our approach. The captain should ride the ref all game long, our players should put in the cynical fouls, and yes: we should be diving about all over the place. Whether you get the fk or get a card, just shrug your shoulders and get on with it. It's the public calling out they don't like, not the cheating.

Whilst I agree, maybe we will see a change with VAR next season.

A couple of weeks back I was listening to a piece on Real Madrid & their poor season. There were several VAR decisions that, if they'd happened previously, the refs alone would probably let go their way (they are Real after all). By applying the letter of the law VAR was estimated to have cost them 11 points over the course of the season.

The guy then went on to say that their performance in games was noticeably impacted when they 'lost' a decision to VAR. Could simply be the perception but the games they've had VAR issues in have tended to be drawn or lost.

That said, I got the impression that Spanish refs were glad of the help but think English ones may not be so welcoming of the technology.

 


Will this be five? It's gonna be five! It IS five!

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
ChrisGC Flag Wantage 11 Mar 19 4.47pm

Originally posted by Nobbybm

Whilst I agree, maybe we will see a change with VAR next season.

A couple of weeks back I was listening to a piece on Real Madrid & their poor season. There were several VAR decisions that, if they'd happened previously, the refs alone would probably let go their way (they are Real after all). By applying the letter of the law VAR was estimated to have cost them 11 points over the course of the season.

The guy then went on to say that their performance in games was noticeably impacted when they 'lost' a decision to VAR. Could simply be the perception but the games they've had VAR issues in have tended to be drawn or lost.

That said, I got the impression that Spanish refs were glad of the help but think English ones may not be so welcoming of the technology.

Great post. In theory, I think you're absolutely correct and I like the La Liga comparison which we can see really is having an impact.

We'll have to wait and see, but I predict VAR is going to be an almighty balls up for the EPL. The culture of refereeing is so reliant on subjectivity that the problems are going to be magnified as the the person in charge of VAR is of the same mindset as the one on the pitch. They'll be looking to justify their own bias rather than to enforce objectively.

For VAR to work, a complete (and long overdue) overhaul of refereeing standards is required. This will involve far too much work and self reflection. I reckon they'll abandon it after a season of calamity.

Edited by ChrisGC (11 Mar 2019 4.49pm)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Online Flag Horsham 11 Mar 19 5.24pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Tom R

There were 4 bad challenges on Luka yesterday, two by Murray (I don't know how he escaped a red card) plus the player, (I forget his name) who committed about 4 or 5 bad challenges in the space of about 10 minutes in the first half and I don't think even got a yellow.

Bissouma. Ref spoke to him and Dunk pointing out how many fouls he had committed....no card. He was also the t*** who was trying to put Luka off at the penalty...no card. Pawson is a very poor ref, completely bottled giving the early red card but....is this the influence of Sky who always like to see 11 v 11

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Maine Eagle's Profile Maine Eagle Flag USA 11 Mar 19 5.45pm Send a Private Message to Maine Eagle Add Maine Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

Bissouma. Ref spoke to him and Dunk pointing out how many fouls he had committed....no card. He was also the t*** who was trying to put Luka off at the penalty...no card. Pawson is a very poor ref, completely bottled giving the early red card but....is this the influence of Sky who always like to see 11 v 11

Not sure if Pawson is thinking about Sky when he decides on a yellow or red.

Refs, like other humans, simply make mistakes but also totally bottle certain situations.

Capoue on Wilf from earlier this year, raked his studs down the back of Wilf's calf but does not see red. It is very rare to see a red card in the early stages of a game, that said it does happen in truly extreme circumstances. That is BS but it simply is a custom in the game. Same with fouls near the half way line versus in the box.

I am interested to see what VAR really does to the ref's heads. If you know that a tight penalty call will get looked at in slo mo, are you more inclined to give it initially, or hold your whistle.

 


"We need to look into the Oranges". Commander In Cheat, April 2019.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Charlie Croker's Profile Charlie Croker Flag Hampshire 11 Mar 19 6.17pm Send a Private Message to Charlie Croker Add Charlie Croker as a friend

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

I am interested to see what VAR really does to the ref's heads. If you know that a tight penalty call will get looked at in slo mo, are you more inclined to give it initially, or hold your whistle.

Definitely. Under VAR next term the lino's have apparently been told not to flag offside in a tight call, let the game flow and if a goal is scored, let VAR sort it out.

There were a few odd decisions in all the games at the weekend:

- Knockeart on Luka
- Citeh's first goal
- Newcastle's last goal
- Pickford's rugby tackle

All of those (maybe with the exception of the AK challenge) would have been automatically referred to VAR, so it will see changes in refereeing standards, possibly with a drop in standards, as they know they have the fall back option of VAR.

 


And me old mucker Colin, with his gelled up flat-top and his GTi, XR3, 4, 5, 6 & 7, GT, iS, Esprit, Cabriolet, Ghia, Turbo 4+4 . . .

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Nobbybm's Profile Nobbybm Flag Dartford 11 Mar 19 9.30pm Send a Private Message to Nobbybm Add Nobbybm as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Great post. In theory, I think you're absolutely correct and I like the La Liga comparison which we can see really is having an impact.

We'll have to wait and see, but I predict VAR is going to be an almighty balls up for the EPL. The culture of refereeing is so reliant on subjectivity that the problems are going to be magnified as the the person in charge of VAR is of the same mindset as the one on the pitch. They'll be looking to justify their own bias rather than to enforce objectively.

For VAR to work, a complete (and long overdue) overhaul of refereeing standards is required. This will involve far too much work and self reflection. I reckon they'll abandon it after a season of calamity.

Edited by ChrisGC (11 Mar 2019 4.49pm)

I get where youíre coming from but in Spain & Germany they seem yo not have VAR teams made up of refs but by folk who simply know ďthe letter of the lawĒ.

There was talk from the DFB that the three man panel would ideally be made up of a qualified official, an ex-player & someone who knows the rule book inside out. It was hoped that this kind of consensus would bring balanced decisions- remains to be seen if they have succeeded with this.

 


Will this be five? It's gonna be five! It IS five!

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 11 Mar 19 10.20pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by MrCParrot

Yep. I totally agree with this.

Neymar is the biggest cheat in football yet he is adored by millions. It will never end, so if you can't beat them join them.

After the AK challenge on Luka, he should have been sorted out with rotational fouling. Fight fire with fire.

Parrot

agreed. Only a fool would observe rules that referees do not enforce.

 


from the Etihad, Emirates, Molyneux, London Stadium, turf moor & Anfield to Old Trafford.....Raptors on the Road

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

 

Page 5 of 5 ę First< 1 2 3 4 5

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > Palace Talk > Robbed by referees 18/19