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April 18 2019 11.44am

Are we in financial trouble

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View mileend's Profile mileend Flag East London 04 Feb 19 9.24pm Send a Private Message to mileend Add mileend as a friend

Originally posted by Ketteridge


Thanks Mileend, I've been looking at the accounts and trying to work them out. So in 2016/17 we made a pre tax profit of £12m. I'm assuming it does include all the transfer spend or £104m, does it exclude the £32m that appears in section 15 creditors amount falling with in one year.

the creditors are a balance sheet item rather than profit and loss so if they are still on the balance sheet as a creditor then they haven't be paid out yet

the transfers are not generally paid out in one go - they are paid in instalments so over the last few years it's likely Liverpool have been our biggest creditor.

Roy made a special mention that we were spending less because we had big payments to make on previous transfers (Benteke and Sakho) which illustrates this

from this small piece of information you can gather that the club is being sensible with the finances and lowering the risk of future financial problems and FFP - however they have to juggle that with staying in the PL

Since the Sakho transfer fee will only come into this years accounts we might not see any improvement in this creditors figure until next year accounts (for 2019)

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 05 Feb 19 9.52am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

I wasn’t concerned with our finances. We would’ve known if we were in serious trouble. They’re lining up to tell us we are.

We’re lucky we have Roy who’s accepting the limitations he’s working under. The repetition, lack of changes during the match and trying to push for the result that day are very frustrating to watch but he fits perfectly with the financial strategy right now. I wouldn’t want this football forever although I bet Parish would. The previous successful escape artist managers would never accept it, especially for 2 seasons (and maybe another). We just have to accept some of the things that frustrate us on match day for now because they’re better than relegation and not challenging for however many seasons.

We now have to be more successful at finding players at the right price and wages. We’ve shown signs of that since the Rakip, Jach and Sørloth window debacle but I’m still not confident. Since then they haven’t been core players and it’s debatable if they’re actually suitable for the manager. Maybe because the budget is so limited we have to, or we find better if we buy what’s available rather than what we bid for. This is where the jury is still out for me. The running of football matters and joined up thinking, not whether we know how to manage the finances.

This might be an obvious or sensible or strange thing to point out depending on your view but it might be why we’re still here in the Prem. Parish didn’t fold when Pulis or Allardyce probably wanted more funds but left at a time they weren’t going to be provided. The issue was rather that we were going through catastrophe, escape job, catastrophe, escape job, and then when we did, Parish makes some left field leap into a football strategy we can’t deliver. Well not instantly and hovering where we do, that’s dangerous. (We’ve been passing the ball around under Hodgson anyway, as we could with a few managers). Hopefully when we come out of this we’ll correct these kind of repeated mistakes. We hope.

 


COYP

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View Nobbybm's Profile Nobbybm Flag Dartford 05 Feb 19 1.03pm Send a Private Message to Nobbybm Add Nobbybm as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

There's points deduction too now isn't there?

All sorts. Points deduction, transfer embargo, disqualification from competitions - they can even take away a championship or trophy if they want to.

After the last fine Bournemouth paid I seem to recall there being a quote that "Fines don't seem to work so other options will be considered for future breaches".

The current FFP cycle ends this year so I presume that not only have we cleared the decks but are waiting to see what new limits/parameters are imposed. There was talk of tightening in certain areas to try & stop the Citeh/PSG situations worsening re "income" albeit this shouldn't impact on us.

Edited by Nobbybm (05 Feb 2019 1.11pm)

 


Will this be five? It's gonna be five! It IS five!

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 05 Feb 19 3.52pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Nobbybm

All sorts. Points deduction, transfer embargo, disqualification from competitions - they can even take away a championship or trophy if they want to.

After the last fine Bournemouth paid I seem to recall there being a quote that "Fines don't seem to work so other options will be considered for future breaches".

The current FFP cycle ends this year so I presume that not only have we cleared the decks but are waiting to see what new limits/parameters are imposed. There was talk of tightening in certain areas to try & stop the Citeh/PSG situations worsening re "income" albeit this shouldn't impact on us.

Edited by Nobbybm (05 Feb 2019 1.11pm)

Don’t 3 year FFP cycles begin and end every year for every club?

 


COYP

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chateauferret Flag 05 Feb 19 4.10pm

Originally posted by glazedallover

I am intrigued. That begs the question why would he give wolves and bournemouth, but not the other four, while at the same time excluding palace?

Makes no sense...

Fulham must be in the s*** given that they spent about £100m and are still s***e.

 


============
The Ferret
============

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe 05 Feb 19 4.10pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by mileend

the creditors are a balance sheet item rather than profit and loss so if they are still on the balance sheet as a creditor then they haven't be paid out yet

the transfers are not generally paid out in one go - they are paid in instalments so over the last few years it's likely Liverpool have been our biggest creditor.

Roy made a special mention that we were spending less because we had big payments to make on previous transfers (Benteke and Sakho) which illustrates this

from this small piece of information you can gather that the club is being sensible with the finances and lowering the risk of future financial problems and FFP - however they have to juggle that with staying in the PL

Since the Sakho transfer fee will only come into this years accounts we might not see any improvement in this creditors figure until next year accounts (for 2019)

Decent post. I'd not really factored in instalment payments, which as you've pointed out create a financial hangover especially when you've shelled out 60m on two players relatively recently. Explains why the new main stand is so badly needed to increase revenue and leave us with a little more liquidity.

Also explains neatly why we aren't 'progressing' in the minds of some unrealistic supporters. If you want to be challenging for top 5, from the start point we had (dilapidated stadium, rented training ground, poor finances) then I think realistically you're looking at a 10-15 year timeframe.

Don't forget that we are also going to be ploughing money into expanding and upgrading the training facilities as well as building a new main stand, all while constantly upgrading and maintaining the current infrastructure the club owns, paying players wages and, if there's some left shelling out a few million on new players and their ever increasing weekly pay packets. Not to mention FFP. So when someone says we're treading water, it might look like that to you but I think the reality is somewhat different.

I think the key here is to do our best at building the club sustainably and slowly, investing in all areas, rather than going all in to the transfer market every year. This appears to be the approach that has been taken.

Southampton are a great example of this – and despite all of it, are currently going through a low period. It happens to every team, the key is making sure you are on a strong enough footing in all areas to give yourself the best chance of weathering whatever gets thrown at you.

QPR are the bad example. Which would you rather be?

 


said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 05 Feb 19 4.50pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by mileend

the creditors are a balance sheet item rather than profit and loss so if they are still on the balance sheet as a creditor then they haven't be paid out yet

the transfers are not generally paid out in one go - they are paid in instalments so over the last few years it's likely Liverpool have been our biggest creditor.

Roy made a special mention that we were spending less because we had big payments to make on previous transfers (Benteke and Sakho) which illustrates this

from this small piece of information you can gather that the club is being sensible with the finances and lowering the risk of future financial problems and FFP - however they have to juggle that with staying in the PL

Since the Sakho transfer fee will only come into this years accounts we might not see any improvement in this creditors figure until next year accounts (for 2019)

The transfer fees may well have been paid in full by factoring agents. If so, it would be those agents who are the creditor and not Liverpool.

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 05 Feb 19 4.51pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Decent post. I'd not really factored in instalment payments, which as you've pointed out create a financial hangover especially when you've shelled out 60m on two players relatively recently. Explains why the new main stand is so badly needed to increase revenue and leave us with a little more liquidity.

Also explains neatly why we aren't 'progressing' in the minds of some unrealistic supporters. If you want to be challenging for top 5, from the start point we had (dilapidated stadium, rented training ground, poor finances) then I think realistically you're looking at a 10-15 year timeframe.

Don't forget that we are also going to be ploughing money into expanding and upgrading the training facilities as well as building a new main stand, all while constantly upgrading and maintaining the current infrastructure the club owns, paying players wages and, if there's some left shelling out a few million on new players and their ever increasing weekly pay packets. Not to mention FFP. So when someone says we're treading water, it might look like that to you but I think the reality is somewhat different.

I think the key here is to do our best at building the club sustainably and slowly, investing in all areas, rather than going all in to the transfer market every year. This appears to be the approach that has been taken.

Southampton are a great example of this – and despite all of it, are currently going through a low period. It happens to every team, the key is making sure you are on a strong enough footing in all areas to give yourself the best chance of weathering whatever gets thrown at you.

QPR are the bad example. Which would you rather be?

Agreed. They are the model we should be aspiring to.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 05 Feb 19 5.39pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Decent post. I'd not really factored in instalment payments, which as you've pointed out create a financial hangover especially when you've shelled out 60m on two players relatively recently. Explains why the new main stand is so badly needed to increase revenue and leave us with a little more liquidity.

Also explains neatly why we aren't 'progressing' in the minds of some unrealistic supporters. If you want to be challenging for top 5, from the start point we had (dilapidated stadium, rented training ground, poor finances) then I think realistically you're looking at a 10-15 year timeframe.

Don't forget that we are also going to be ploughing money into expanding and upgrading the training facilities as well as building a new main stand, all while constantly upgrading and maintaining the current infrastructure the club owns, paying players wages and, if there's some left shelling out a few million on new players and their ever increasing weekly pay packets. Not to mention FFP. So when someone says we're treading water, it might look like that to you but I think the reality is somewhat different.

I think the key here is to do our best at building the club sustainably and slowly, investing in all areas, rather than going all in to the transfer market every year. This appears to be the approach that has been taken.

Southampton are a great example of this – and despite all of it, are currently going through a low period. It happens to every team, the key is making sure you are on a strong enough footing in all areas to give yourself the best chance of weathering whatever gets thrown at you.

QPR are the bad example. Which would you rather be?

Pardon? Challenging for top 5? What do you have in your tea?

Is this what you or anyone else expects or think we’re doing or ever intend to do?

 


COYP

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View Aray's Profile Aray Flag London 05 Feb 19 10.37pm Send a Private Message to Aray Add Aray as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Pardon? Challenging for top 5? What do you have in your tea?

Is this what you or anyone else expects or think we’re doing or ever intend to do?

I reckon you can forgive the OP's poor use of words in an otherwise sensible post. No one thinks we can be a Champions League hunting club but we could be eyeing a regular top half position where we dont ever come into the relegation dog fight. I think that is what he means by the club making progress and what infrastructure we require to achieve that.

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 06 Feb 19 6.16am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

The transfer fees may well have been paid in full by factoring agents. If so, it would be those agents who are the creditor and not Liverpool.

I've never heard of factoring agents funding transfer fees and it's a business that I know a bit about

 

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View Ginger Pubic Wig's Profile Ginger Pubic Wig Flag Wickham de L'Ouest 06 Feb 19 6.49am Send a Private Message to Ginger Pubic Wig Add Ginger Pubic Wig as a friend

Rudi who's lining up to tell us we're in financial trouble? What do you mean?

Also, the tone of your opening comment, written as it is in the past tense, suggests that you think we might be. I can't quite tell. I appreciate you think we are constrained financially but that's a world away from financial trouble.

I agree with the rest of your post but would observe that Meyer, Guaita and Batshuayi appear to be astute decisions, although I do wonder what we pay them. I guess you alluded to that.


 

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