HOLS obsession with racism?

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Stirlingsays 13 Feb 19 6.56pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Come on Maple. Croydon has always had its yobs but it was never as bad as it is now. It might not be special in terms of London but that is probably because London is a cesspit of street crime. Murder is almost a daily occurrence now whereas once it would have been a national story. Maple isn't stupid, he knows. He's just keeping the dream alive. [Link] Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Feb 2019 6.57pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

13 Feb 19 6.56pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Come on Maple. Croydon has always had its yobs but it was never as bad as it is now. It might not be special in terms of London but that is probably because London is a cesspit of street crime.

Murder is almost a daily occurrence now whereas once it would have been a national story.

Maple isn't stupid, he knows.

He's just keeping the dream alive.

[Link]

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Feb 2019 6.57pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Feb 19 7.03pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger This again? You seriously, honestly believe that only one side lied exaggerated and conned their way to votes? You obviously haven't 'retired' from talking crap. I didn't say that and have never suggested that either. All I have said is that the hardliners of the type which seem overrepresented on these threads do not hold views which are typical of the majority of those who voted to leave the EU. The rebuttal was in response to the nonsensical claim that just because a small majority voted to leave the EU that those with strongly anti EU views can speak for all of them. Most British voters are moderate, middle of the road types and not on the extremist fringes. I have little doubt that some who voted to stay only did so because it felt safe to do so. Some folk are scared of change, just as there are those who always think the grass is greener next door. As I said in my last post it seems pointless trying to debate with the hardliners because all you get back is entrenched positions and insults. So at least you confirm my point, which is progress of a sort. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Feb 19 7.03pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

This again?

You seriously, honestly believe that only one side lied exaggerated and conned their way to votes?

You obviously haven't 'retired' from talking crap.

I didn't say that and have never suggested that either. All I have said is that the hardliners of the type which seem overrepresented on these threads do not hold views which are typical of the majority of those who voted to leave the EU.

The rebuttal was in response to the nonsensical claim that just because a small majority voted to leave the EU that those with strongly anti EU views can speak for all of them.

Most British voters are moderate, middle of the road types and not on the extremist fringes.

I have little doubt that some who voted to stay only did so because it felt safe to do so. Some folk are scared of change, just as there are those who always think the grass is greener next door.

As I said in my last post it seems pointless trying to debate with the hardliners because all you get back is entrenched positions and insults. So at least you confirm my point, which is progress of a sort.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 13 Feb 19 7.06pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I didn't say that and have never suggested that either. All I have said is that the hardliners of the type which seem overrepresented on these threads do not hold views which are typical of the majority of those who voted to leave the EU. The rebuttal was in response to the nonsensical claim that just because a small majority voted to leave the EU that those with strongly anti EU views can speak for all of them. Most British voters are moderate, middle of the road types and not on the extremist fringes. I have little doubt that some who voted to stay only did so because it felt safe to do so. Some folk are scared of change, just as there are those who always think the grass is greener next door. As I said in my last post it seems pointless trying to debate with the hardliners because all you get back is entrenched positions and insults. So at least you confirm my point, which is progress of a sort. At this rate you're going to have more fake retirements than Sinatra. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

13 Feb 19 7.06pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The rebuttal was in response to the nonsensical claim that just because a small majority voted to leave the EU that those with strongly anti EU views can speak for all of them.

Most British voters are moderate, middle of the road types and not on the extremist fringes.

I have little doubt that some who voted to stay only did so because it felt safe to do so. Some folk are scared of change, just as there are those who always think the grass is greener next door.

At this rate you're going to have more fake retirements than Sinatra.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Feb 19 7.15pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays At this rate you're going to have more fake retirements than Sinatra. I won't be joining any of the specific debates again, although I read some and get both riled and amused in equal measure. I am commenting on this because it addressed the point I was making about the population of the political threads. Think of it like Sinatra deciding not to perform again but still expressing his views about his fellow performers. As Ken Clarke said today there are only about 30 MPs who really want a hard, no deal, Brexit but they make much more noise and have much more influence than their number justifies. The same applies here I think. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Feb 19 7.15pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

At this rate you're going to have more fake retirements than Sinatra.

I won't be joining any of the specific debates again, although I read some and get both riled and amused in equal measure.

I am commenting on this because it addressed the point I was making about the population of the political threads.

Think of it like Sinatra deciding not to perform again but still expressing his views about his fellow performers.

As Ken Clarke said today there are only about 30 MPs who really want a hard, no deal, Brexit but they make much more noise and have much more influence than their number justifies.

The same applies here I think.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 13 Feb 19 7.19pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays At this rate you're going to have more fake retirements than Sinatra. My missus has plenty of fake ones too. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 13 Feb 19 7.19pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

At this rate you're going to have more fake retirements than Sinatra.

My missus has plenty of fake ones too.

Red and Blue Army!

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Mapletree Croydon 13 Feb 19 7.28pm
Originally posted by martin2412 I lived in Stroud Green Way from 1974 until 1990 and it was fine. I know a few people who still live there and sometimes visit when I'm down, and it's still not too bad. None of Addiscombe is anywhere near as scary as the previous areas you mentioned - Fort Neef, Broad Green or Selhurst. And what do you think is the reason that those areas (you named) are the dangerous areas of Croydon ? Can't find any mention on t'net but I could have sworn two people were shot dead in Stroud Green over the past few years. Seemed scary to me when I was wee small and knocking about in the rec.
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Mapletree

Croydon 13 Feb 19 7.28pm

Originally posted by martin2412

I lived in Stroud Green Way from 1974 until 1990 and it was fine. I know a few people who still live there and sometimes visit when I'm down, and it's still not too bad. None of Addiscombe is anywhere near as scary as the previous areas you mentioned - Fort Neef, Broad Green or Selhurst. And what do you think is the reason that those areas (you named) are the dangerous areas of Croydon ?

Can't find any mention on t'net but I could have sworn two people were shot dead in Stroud Green over the past few years.

Seemed scary to me when I was wee small and knocking about in the rec.

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Stirlingsays 13 Feb 19 7.33pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I won't be joining any of the specific debates again, although I read some and get both riled and amused in equal measure. I am commenting on this because it addressed the point I was making about the population of the political threads. Think of it like Sinatra deciding not to perform again but still expressing his views about his fellow performers. As Ken Clarke said today there are only about 30 MPs who really want a hard, no deal, Brexit but they make much more noise and have much more influence than their number justifies. The same applies here I think. Ken Clarke was a minority in the Tory party for decades......He's had far too much influence himself, so he's one to talk. The people who talk about 'hardliners' having too much influence have zero mandate themselves. At least the 'hardliners' were on the right side of a vote. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Feb 2019 7.35pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

13 Feb 19 7.33pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I won't be joining any of the specific debates again, although I read some and get both riled and amused in equal measure.

I am commenting on this because it addressed the point I was making about the population of the political threads.

Think of it like Sinatra deciding not to perform again but still expressing his views about his fellow performers.

As Ken Clarke said today there are only about 30 MPs who really want a hard, no deal, Brexit but they make much more noise and have much more influence than their number justifies.

The same applies here I think.

Ken Clarke was a minority in the Tory party for decades......He's had far too much influence himself, so he's one to talk.

The people who talk about 'hardliners' having too much influence have zero mandate themselves.

At least the 'hardliners' were on the right side of a vote.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Feb 2019 7.35pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 13 Feb 19 7.35pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC My missus has plenty of fake ones too. As long as they don't droop....that's the important thing. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

13 Feb 19 7.35pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

My missus has plenty of fake ones too.

As long as they don't droop....that's the important thing.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Feb 19 9.02pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Ken Clarke was a minority in the Tory party for decades......He's had far too much influence himself, so he's one to talk. The people who talk about 'hardliners' having too much influence have zero mandate themselves. At least the 'hardliners' were on the right side of a vote. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Feb 2019 7.35pm) I think Ken Clarke has always been in the majority wing of the Tory party. Along with Heseltine he was the anchor which moored Thatcher to reality. Most of the Tories are social democrats at heart. Very few are really determined free marketeers. Of course there are degrees and Ken Clarke is as far on his fringe as Rees-Mogg is on his. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (13 Feb 2019 9.19pm) For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Feb 19 9.02pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Ken Clarke was a minority in the Tory party for decades......He's had far too much influence himself, so he's one to talk.

The people who talk about 'hardliners' having too much influence have zero mandate themselves.

At least the 'hardliners' were on the right side of a vote.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Feb 2019 7.35pm)

I think Ken Clarke has always been in the majority wing of the Tory party. Along with Heseltine he was the anchor which moored Thatcher to reality. Most of the Tories are social democrats at heart. Very few are really determined free marketeers. Of course there are degrees and Ken Clarke is as far on his fringe as Rees-Mogg is on his.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (13 Feb 2019 9.19pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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cryrst The garden of England 13 Feb 19 9.12pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle If you really think that the "17 million" all hold views about the EU, let alone about the other right wing causes, similar to those being offered by the group on here, then you are deluded. From all I can detect most of them were led to their decision by a combination of lies, ignorance of the detail and the usual political motivation that "anything must be better than this". Change is always attractive, which fades when the change becomes a reality. I know many people who thought we would do better by leaving because it would ensure jobs for them and their families and money for the NHS but are very much middle of the road politically, think Trump is a disaster and "Tommy Robinson" a parasite. Debating with such people is a pleasure, because they have minds open to well reasoned argument. Not so the hardliners, where insult is a normal retort. They are very much a fringe community, albeit well represented here. debating someone with the same views and 'open minds' is a chat
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cryrst

The garden of England 13 Feb 19 9.12pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If you really think that the "17 million" all hold views about the EU, let alone about the other right wing causes, similar to those being offered by the group on here, then you are deluded.

From all I can detect most of them were led to their decision by a combination of lies, ignorance of the detail and the usual political motivation that "anything must be better than this". Change is always attractive, which fades when the change becomes a reality.

I know many people who thought we would do better by leaving because it would ensure jobs for them and their families and money for the NHS but are very much middle of the road politically, think Trump is a disaster and "Tommy Robinson" a parasite.

Debating with such people is a pleasure, because they have minds open to well reasoned argument. Not so the hardliners, where insult is a normal retort. They are very much a fringe community, albeit well represented here.

debating someone with the same views and 'open minds' is a chat

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steve1984 13 Feb 19 9.18pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Where the Sun don't shine I'm guessing. Strangely the reason I live where I do is because when my wife googled which city in the UK has the most sunshine, the answer was the city we moved to. I was just grateful that the answer wasn't Grimsby.
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steve1984 13 Feb 19 9.18pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Where the Sun don't shine I'm guessing.

Strangely the reason I live where I do is because when my wife googled which city in the UK has the most sunshine, the answer was the city we moved to.

I was just grateful that the answer wasn't Grimsby.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Feb 19 9.21pm
Originally posted by cryrst debating someone with the same views and 'open minds' is a chat It would be, but that isn't what I said. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Feb 19 9.21pm

Originally posted by cryrst

debating someone with the same views and 'open minds' is a chat

It would be, but that isn't what I said.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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