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BlueJay  UK 26 Feb 21 7.00pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
To withdraw her citizenship, despite having been born in this country, is in my opinion a complete over-reach. What she did or who she did it with are only considerations in terms of how she should be treated by the state. But for the state to wash its hands of her without recourse to the legal system? And strip her of a nationality she is as qualified for as the rest of us? Utterly wrong. A real concern for anybody who believes the Government needs to be held constantly to account. A day over 18 then absolutely. But she was not. She was a child.
I appreciate the argument. It's perhaps a more principled stance than my stated view. 'Justice should be bind' and all that - regardless of how a specific case may be perceived by the public. I'm concerned about the consequences of letting her back where she has demonstrated such involvement with extremists though and the public shelling out for that. She clearly had so little concern for the UK and UK law that she physically removed herself from it and it came off as planned rather than a silly teenage spur of the minute decision. But yes I appreciate how that could be deemed irrelevant based on her status as a minor, even though I'm glad it looks like she won't be returning.
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 Matov Online  26 Feb 21 7.09pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
She isn't British in my eyes and she has no allegiance to Britain either....on the contrary she worked against it as its enemy. People who hold onto higher moralistic principles against their enemies never had to pick up broken bodies. Their positions are luxuries that are just taken advantage of and are perceived as weakness. I cannot contradict a single one of your emotive reasoning, and I feel them all to but my position on this is not moralistic. It is based on what I see as the legal position. She was a child when she left and as such, was owed a duty of care by the British Government. To have her citizenship stripped from her given these circumstances sits very badly with me. I will not comment further on this because it is clear that I am at odds with the majority of people I normally agree with but I would urge people to take a step back from the understandable anger around what she did and focus on the wider picture.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| BlueJay UK 26 Feb 21 7.13pm |
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"The Court of Appeal mistakenly believed that, when an individual’s right to have a fair hearing of an appeal came into conflict with the requirements of national security, her right to a fair hearing must prevail" "The Court of Appeal mistakenly treated the Secretary of State’s extraterritorial human rights policy as if it were a rule of law which he must obey" Interesting to read this part of the ruling. They didn't seem very impressed by the Court of Appeals take.. Edited by BlueJay (26 Feb 2021 7.14pm)
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| BlueJay UK 26 Feb 21 7.19pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
I cannot contradict a single one of your emotive reasoning, and I feel them all to but my position on this is not moralistic. It is based on what I see as the legal position. She was a child when she left and as such, was owed a duty of care by the British Government. To have her citizenship stripped from her given these circumstances sits very badly with me. I will not comment further on this because it is clear that I am at odds with the majority of people I normally agree with but I would urge people to take a step back from the understandable anger around what she did and focus on the wider picture. It's fair enough to at least highlight this perspective I'd say, as her status as a minor is what made this such a complex issue to begin with. Now if we can somehow keep James Corden out I'm sure a point of agreement can be reached.
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| kingdowieonthewall Sussex, ex-Cronx. 26 Feb 21 8.07pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
She isn't British in my eyes and she has no allegiance to Britain either....on the contrary she worked against it as its enemy. People who hold onto higher moralistic principles against their enemies never had to pick up broken bodies. Their positions are luxuries that are just taken advantage of and are perceived as weakness. well said Sterling.
Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents? |
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| 20 Spaces Isnt Enoug Bolton 26 Feb 21 9.06pm |
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Sorry, only read the last 2 pages...can you let me know if any of our correspondents have said the usual... "would" ?
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 becky over the moon 26 Feb 21 9.30pm |
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Maybe,given the numbers of British citizens of foreign heritage, it would be an idea to review the crime of Treason, or at least the penalties for it? Loss of citizenship could then be a clearly defined outcome, so that there would be no excuses for anyone whose loyalties are shown to lie elsewhere.
A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 26 Feb 21 10.35pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
She isn't British in my eyes and she has no allegiance to Britain either....on the contrary she worked against it as its enemy. People who hold onto higher moralistic principles against their enemies never had to pick up broken bodies. Their positions are luxuries that are just taken advantage of and are perceived as weakness. Sums it up. She made her choice and I care not if she was 15, 16, 18 or 80. She is a wrong'un and the kind of person that if I had my way, would be deported back to their ancestral home. I care not if he was born in Britain either. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (26 Feb 2021 10.36pm)
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| Stirlingsays 27 Feb 21 12.38am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Sums it up. She made her choice and I care not if she was 15, 16, 18 or 80. She is a wrong'un and the kind of person that if I had my way, would be deported back to their ancestral home. I care not if he was born in Britain either. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (26 Feb 2021 10.36pm) Agreed. I respect Matov and I understand the position while differing for the given reasons. Whether or not this woman came back to Britain she will find supporters in pakistan and the myriad of anti western/British conclaves that exist both internally (madness) and externally. When it comes to age, she had plotted this with her now dead friends for some time of her own free will. This wasn't the act of a coerced child being led by others. Her loyalties were simply to another state and knowingly against us. At what extent do we forgive for age....in my view it depends upon the act. For my part I can never forgive the killers of the Bulger child and I don't believe justice has been served.....when it is deliberate and violent murder you forfeit your own and while they were too young to execute they should never have been released.....I still can't get over what they deliberately did to that terrified and crying two year old. Once done, some crimes should have no way back....forgiveness is for the dead and can't be given by the living. Anyway I've gone on a detour here, in my view, this woman should start her life again elsewhere. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Feb 2021 12.49am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 27 Feb 21 12.45am |
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Originally posted by kingdowieonthewall
well said Sterling. If she came back here she'd most likely be living off the state, which would be another insult to those families who had lost loyal family fighting for our forces out there. The fact that this woman has so many backers should inform you of the insurmountable problems the UK now has. Be under no doubt, given the current tradectory if this was happening twenty years from now she'd be back here. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Feb 2021 12.46am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Eaglecoops CR3 27 Feb 21 7.44am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
If she came back here she'd most likely be living off the state, which would be another insult to those families who had lost loyal family fighting for our forces out there. The fact that this woman has so many backers should inform you of the insurmountable problems the UK now has. Be under no doubt, given the current tradectory if this was happening twenty years from now she'd be back here. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Feb 2021 12.46am) In 20 years time Christianity will be a minor faith in the UK and no doubt Sharia Law will have a strong foothold too. The future is not bright that’s for sure.
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| The Dolphin 27 Feb 21 8.48am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
If she came back here she'd most likely be living off the state, which would be another insult to those families who had lost loyal family fighting for our forces out there. The fact that this woman has so many backers should inform you of the insurmountable problems the UK now has. Be under no doubt, given the current tradectory if this was happening twenty years from now she'd be back here. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Feb 2021 12.46am) Well said that man!
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