Keep up Old Geezer. I didn’t say Watford are no good. I pointed out that finishing 7th 8th 9th is a fleeting achievement. It’s not the holy grail of PL stability that people suggest. If you look at the teams that have finished in that position in recent years half of them were plying their trade in the Championship shortly after. It is on this basis alone that I made the somewhat tongue in cheek aside that with any luck Watford will follow in their footsteps in quick time. The serious point is that finishing top half one season guarantees nothing for the following season. Every year 14 teams are slugging it out to avoid the drop. Unfortunately we cannot transcend that truth.

Its more likely to be us with the current squad!

The fact that you've dredged up (a semi-) something from 2004 (Leeds) suggests that "And on. And on. And on." is probably a little over-blown. And, more significantly, this was a result of massive financial mismanagement - in the event - as a result of gambling a future on breakiing into the elite. Which is, handily, kind of the point. (Though I doubt anyone is suggesting we attempt similar extravagence, even if we could. Oh, and their predicament meant it was scarcely a giant shock by then.)

Of course nothing is absolutely set in stone. Any apparently absolutist statments are only for colour. There will always be evolution (big teams having periods of under-performance), occasional seismic shifts (Chelsea, Man City) and the exceptional freakish aberration (Leicester), but these are asides. The fact is that the notion that finishing top-half is a given stepping stone to future prosperity is simply not borne out by the evidence. (Nor does it represent a particularly glorious achievement, to my mind, but that's far more arguable and need not detain us.)

The issue is more the manner of finishing 13th (let's say), I think. As many have said. If we could swing more of our victories to being at home, and do so with a little more of a flourish in our game, the progression argument would be less .

I would prefer that, certainly. I find it all a bit tedious at the minute too. But then I always expected to find the Premier tedious after the initial excitement. It is an incredibly boring league if you're not fighting at the top or the bottom. (Same as all leagues of course but it's particularly so with the Premier as there's so little scope for anybody to compete for honours outside of the established set.) Fancy-pants certainly and you can get a smashing latte at some places, but it's f***ing sterile and soulless in the main.

Hitting 7th (if we're lucky) or 9th or 10th or whatever isn't going to change that suddenly. We might progress from there, certainly. Might. But it's a big "might". And every bit as much we might not. And is it that big a deal anyway? Because beyond that is very unlikely indeed.

A change to our tactics might do well to improve the mood, definitely, but we'd need to accept we could very well go down in trying that, is all. It's not easy to stay in the Premier, as the margins are so fine. Which is why Roy is doing such a good job. So for me it comes down to what's most important. I've always thought our natural environment is slugging it out in the second tier. The glory of the promotion years. The (retrospective) sad poetry of willingly following years of inevitable losses to Shrewsbury. I really love all that. But it turns out we tend to very nearly go bust a lot if not set in the PL. And that's a real s***ter.

As a woman, I can step aside, or step up my game...

you still talking?

‘Football isn’t instant coffee. You have to work at it. You must grow the bean, grind it.’ Ian Holloway

Doubt it as their manager knows how to get the best out of his players home and away.

Bring back Brolin

..... which is 6 points!

Bring back Brolin