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April 19 2019 9.22am

Let's criticise our managers.eh?

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View ChrisGC's Profile ChrisGC Flag Wantage 15 Apr 19 8.40am Send a Private Message to ChrisGC Add ChrisGC as a friend

Mad, irrelevant, illogical or all of the above things people say to justify their own personal fear of failure:
1) Look at Charlton, be careful what you wish for.
2) We should never have got rid of Murray
3) Roy Hodgson is doing well compared to our other managers.
4) Clinging on to premier League survival is more important that trophies.
5) It's the players' fault for long term underperformance

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View ChrisGC's Profile ChrisGC Flag Wantage 15 Apr 19 8.48am Send a Private Message to ChrisGC Add ChrisGC as a friend

Originally posted by Painter

I think the point you are missing is, Hodgson is being compared to previous Palace managers by a lot of the longstanding fans. He actually stacks up very well against all of them except Coppell, the rest by and large have had serious flaws, Bruce, Dowie and Pulis were good, but sh_t people, the rest weren't very good.

The new fans expect us to be pushing for Europe, beating all the top teams etc, the reality is it isn't going to happen as we haven't the financial resources of the top teams. The older fans still cant quite believe we are still in the Premier after years of being a yoyo club and see staying here as progression and are happy with Hodgson as he can keep us in there.

I'm not a new fan and I think the ambition should be to push for top 8.

The past is completely irrelevant. What you describe is a fear of failure.

Just keep slogging out survival is not success and is completely unsustainable.

 

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View Painter's Profile Painter Flag Croydon 15 Apr 19 9.37am Send a Private Message to Painter Add Painter as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

I'm not a new fan and I think the ambition should be to push for top 8.

The past is completely irrelevant. What you describe is a fear of failure.

Just keep slogging out survival is not success and is completely unsustainable.

Ambition and expectation are not the same, All clubs have ambition, itís how you achieve it not easy.

The past is very relevant, as all the top clubs have a history of success going back years, trying to break into that group is virtually impossible. They have a vested interested in keeping other clubs below them and use their financial muscle to do so, generally buying clubs best players.

All clubs outside the top 6 have a fear of failure, as relegation is just devastating to a club in financial terms. You want change and more success, so did many other clubs that are now desperately trying to get back into the Premier. In our current financial state, I just canít see the benefit of getting rid of Roy.

 

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View dynamicdick's Profile dynamicdick Flag Dormansland 15 Apr 19 10.10am Send a Private Message to dynamicdick Add dynamicdick as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

I'm not a new fan and I think the ambition should be to push for top 8.

The past is completely irrelevant. What you describe is a fear of failure.

Just keep slogging out survival is not success and is completely unsustainable.

Me the same (3rd Division South 1st game) and 100% agree with your post.

 


Bring back Brolin

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View ChrisGC's Profile ChrisGC Flag Wantage 15 Apr 19 1.04pm Send a Private Message to ChrisGC Add ChrisGC as a friend

Originally posted by dynamicdick

Me the same (3rd Division South 1st game) and 100% agree with your post.

Cheers mate. I'm not quite that established, but fair play. It's now or never for me. We've got to turn this stint in the Prem into trophies or higher positions. As it stands we will go down soon and then it's back to square 1.

 

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View PZ Eagle's Profile PZ Eagle Online Flag Penzance 15 Apr 19 2.00pm Send a Private Message to PZ Eagle Add PZ Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

I'm not a new fan and I think the ambition should be to push for top 8.

The past is completely irrelevant. What you describe is a fear of failure.

Just keep slogging out survival is not success and is completely unsustainable.

The late Sir Winston Churchill once said:- A Nation that forgets it's past has no future. The same words can apply to our club, if we forget our past we have no future.

So the past is NOT irrevelant.

 


Conjunctivitis.com - A site for sore eyes.

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View Eustace H. Plimsoll's Profile Eustace H. Plimsoll Flag Aldershot 15 Apr 19 2.02pm Send a Private Message to Eustace H. Plimsoll Add Eustace H. Plimsoll as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Cheers mate. I'm not quite that established, but fair play. It's now or never for me. We've got to turn this stint in the Prem into trophies or higher positions. As it stands we will go down soon and then it's back to square 1.


Definitely. Just how exciting would it be to finish 9th?? 8th even?? Can you imagine? Awesome.

Or rather it makes no difference. Not really. This is how it is, how it was always going to be, and how it will be. Success goes to the wealthy at the top table (other than for the very occasional aberration.) The rest of us just scrabble around for their scraps and try not to look too bored as we keep ourselves busy. We all know this, surely.

There are the established top 6 teams tieing up the business end of the Premier with 2, maybe 3, others - again, generally those with (and typically wasting) a good few quid - trying to squeeze into that group. After that it's largely a free-for-all other than for usually 1 or 2 teams stinking up the place up and another 1 or 2 above them starting to whiff a bit. Any of the 9 or 10 or so 'middling' teams can finish anywhere from 8th or 9th to 16th or 17th, in any given year, given a few vagaries. There's very little to choose between them. And even less to get excited about in the difference.

Painful truth is it's actually more exciting to be defying the odds to avoid relegation than it is to 'succeed' to 8th. 8th! Whoo! Who gives? Stick that on a scarf. "We're by far the 8th-best team, the country has just seen." Sing up... And is it worth spunking an unaffordable shedload of money to be able to do so?

Cup's always a - relatively slim - possibility of course but that's the lottery everyone says - unless, again, you're one of the big boys. So you can't really do a lot of planning for a cup run - best you can do is give it a really good go every time. I totally get why people say the glory of a cup win beats league survival. That's my instinct too, but I probably need a guarantee of the cup win to warrant risking our future. And they're not around. And would spoil it anyway. And as 2010 felt like it nearly killed me, y'know...

So that's that. Unless we find a load of cash down the back of somebody's couch then this is it. If it's the excitement of success you're after then sadly you'd be better hoping for us to get relegated again. (Which we will before long. All of us 'middlers' will at some point.) Maybe yearn for us to 'do a Pompey' if you're feeling really kinky! Otherwise, better get comfy...

 


As a woman, I can step aside, or step up my game...

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 15 Apr 19 2.06pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Cheers mate. I'm not quite that established, but fair play. It's now or never for me. We've got to turn this stint in the Prem into trophies or higher positions. As it stands we will go down soon and then it's back to square 1.

I agree with the general thrust of your argument. I'd like to believe that SP is an ambitious man, after all he did build a successful business from scratch.
I also think that pragmatically the club has made clear efforts to become an established PL team with high profile signings and big wages. It seems to me that we are now at the crossroads. The cautious approach taken by RH was probably necessary during a period where stability was vital - now the owners are in a good position to evaluate what it would take to secure a top 10 spot, now that would show ambition!

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View ChrisGC's Profile ChrisGC Flag Wantage 15 Apr 19 2.12pm Send a Private Message to ChrisGC Add ChrisGC as a friend

Originally posted by Eustace H. Plimsoll


Definitely. Just how exciting would it be to finish 9th?? 8th even?? Can you imagine? Awesome.

Or rather it makes no difference. Not really. This is how it is, how it was always going to be, and how it will be. Success goes to the wealthy at the top table (other than for the very occasional aberration.) The rest of us just scrabble around for their scraps and try not to look too bored as we keep ourselves busy. We all know this, surely.

There are the established top 6 teams tieing up the business end of the Premier with 2, maybe 3, others - again, generally those with (and typically wasting) a good few quid - trying to squeeze into that group. After that it's largely a free-for-all other than for usually 1 or 2 teams stinking up the place up and another 1 or 2 above them starting to whiff a bit. Any of the 9 or 10 or so 'middling' teams can finish anywhere from 8th or 9th to 16th or 17th, in any given year, given a few vagaries. There's very little to choose between them. And even less to get excited about in the difference.

Painful truth is it's actually more exciting to be defying the odds to avoid relegation than it is to 'succeed' to 8th. 8th! Whoo! Who gives? Stick that on a scarf. "We're by far the 8th-best team, the country has just seen." Sing up... And is it worth spunking an unaffordable shedload of money to be able to do so?

Cup's always a - relatively slim - possibility of course but that's the lottery everyone says - unless, again, you're one of the big boys. So you can't really do a lot of planning for a cup run - best you can do is give it a really good go every time. I totally get why people say the glory of a cup win beats league survival. That's my instinct too, but I probably need a guarantee of the cup win to warrant risking our future. And they're not around. And would spoil it anyway. And as 2010 felt like it nearly killed me, y'know...

So that's that. Unless we find a load of cash down the back of somebody's couch then this is it. If it's the excitement of success you're after then sadly you'd be better hoping for us to get relegated again. (Which we will before long. All of us 'middlers' will at some point.) Maybe yearn for us to 'do a Pompey' if you're feeling really kinky! Otherwise, better get comfy...

Completely disagree.

9th and then 8th is progress. Progress brings exposure, exposure brings sponsorship, sponsorship brings investment.

It's what we do with that investment. We don't need a benefactor to realistically be competing to win the league/fa cup, or the uefa cup off the back of that or a strong league finish.

We've got one of the largest catchment area in Europe, yet our youth team isn't even top tier, nor has it produced anyone other than AWB creditworthy in nearly ten years.

If we invested in youth and scouting we could progress.

Regarding history, look at how sustainable success has always been built from Celtic to Liverpool, from United to Arsenal. Youth.

Success breeds success. A top 8 finish, which I think is achievable with this squad, a top youth set up feeding in talent which can be used to build and sold on to reinvest is the way forward.

Keep just aiming to survive and seeing no difference between 8th and 17th is a self fulfilling prophecy. We will go down.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View ChrisGC's Profile ChrisGC Flag Wantage 15 Apr 19 2.20pm Send a Private Message to ChrisGC Add ChrisGC as a friend

Originally posted by PZ Eagle

The late Sir Winston Churchill once said:- A Nation that forgets it's past has no future. The same words can apply to our club, if we forget our past we have no future.

So the past is NOT irrevelant.

What past would they be?

The constant cycle of relegation/scraping promotion version, maybe the losing a couple of cup finals in nearly 100 years of competing in them chapter? Or maybe the keep nearly going out of existence one?

It astounds me that the ground has quotes and images from the Wright/Bright era everywhere like we've got something to boast about historically.

A bit like how we jazzed the cup final up as a rerun of 1990, and guess what? We lost. Again.

Bollox to the past. This team doesn't need that as an excuse to fall back on.

 

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View Osvaldo's Profile Osvaldo Flag Epsom 15 Apr 19 2.34pm Send a Private Message to Osvaldo Add Osvaldo as a friend

I cancelled my season ticket at the end of last season because I wasn't being entertained.
These guys get good money but there is no fight in their belly. They should have had a real go against City, nothing to lose. But as usual they were so predictable and surrendered in the usual way.
Is the manager or the players at fault? Why start with CB? He has lost any kind of form. Rather a youngster started.
I get more excited at the thought of Cardiff winning their next away game and I can do that in the comfort of my armchair!
Good job we've had some excellent away victories otherwise we would have been joining Fulham and Huddersfield.

 

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View Bexley Eagle's Profile Bexley Eagle Flag Bexley Kent 15 Apr 19 2.38pm Send a Private Message to Bexley Eagle Add Bexley Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

I'm not a new fan and I think the ambition should be to push for top 8.

The past is completely irrelevant. What you describe is a fear of failure.

Just keep slogging out survival is not success and is completely unsustainable.

Trouble is outside the top 6 + Everton every other club will get relegated from the Premier League at some point. So really what do you mean by sustainable? We are still in the top flight when others have gone by the wayside (who perhaps had what you class as a more sustainable model).
Hodgson's first objective was to keep us up. He has achieved that. His second objective was a cup run - in part he achieved that as well. There really isn't much difference between finishing 8th and 12th apart from a few million quid.
Benchmarked against our clubs history this season has been a success even if our home form has been poor. I do not agree with all of his tactics, but he has a plan, he implements his plan, and that plan has been good enough to see us stay up again. An lastly lets not forget that last season Hodgson performed a miracle.

 

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