Labour Party Supporters: Should Corbyn Step Down?

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YT Oxford 23 Sep 19 4.14pm
Originally posted by W12 I came from a sink estate in South London (one of the worse) and through hard work now have two children in private school. Recently I've been complaining to one of the schools that my son is being forced to attend an "Individuals in Society" lesson including every crappy social justice topic you can imagine - yes clearly left wing indoctrination involved. But the problem here is the government now mandate this anyway. I would still rather they were in private education as apart from anything else they are physically safer and have a better pupil / student ratio. My heart goes out to most people that have to use state schools although I know there are a few good ones (although generally hogged by the middle classes). I didn't create the pool you mention and have been actively campaigning to swim away from it. I would agree though that with most of the parents there is only one specific type of politics they will tolerate. James O'Brien is one of the other parents at the school for example. It's not a very "diverse" school by the way. What's your definition of a middle class person? Many people would include in the list of attributes "sends their children to private school" and not "sends their children to state school". Such is irony. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 23 Sep 19 4.14pm

Originally posted by W12

I came from a sink estate in South London (one of the worse) and through hard work now have two children in private school. Recently I've been complaining to one of the schools that my son is being forced to attend an "Individuals in Society" lesson including every crappy social justice topic you can imagine - yes clearly left wing indoctrination involved. But the problem here is the government now mandate this anyway.

I would still rather they were in private education as apart from anything else they are physically safer and have a better pupil / student ratio. My heart goes out to most people that have to use state schools although I know there are a few good ones (although generally hogged by the middle classes).

I didn't create the pool you mention and have been actively campaigning to swim away from it. I would agree though that with most of the parents there is only one specific type of politics they will tolerate. James O'Brien is one of the other parents at the school for example.

It's not a very "diverse" school by the way.

What's your definition of a middle class person? Many people would include in the list of attributes "sends their children to private school" and not "sends their children to state school". Such is irony.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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Stirlingsays 23 Sep 19 4.51pm
Originally posted by Matov Works for me. Ideally, I would like to see the entire education system privatised with parents issued vouchers which schools could compete for but I accept that my position on this is a minority one. And therefore if people prefer the state to be responsible for the provision of education then there needs to be a total equality in that. One system, one curriculum and an onus on our politicians to have a stake in it. I think there are good arguments for both private and no private education. I'm kind of struggling to see how private education has particularly benefited this country as a whole since WW2. It's not that I'm against the principle of private education....but I'm more about what the result of it is. As far as I can see it's just so the upper and middle classes can suck up all the best jobs and resources for themselves. How is the actual country as a whole benefiting? It isn't. So let the lefties have this one.....The middle and upper class dropped the ball as far as I'm concerned. Let the nihilistic individualists who play at neo liberal socialism exist in mixed ability classes.....they want 'equality', lets give them a taste of that. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Sep 2019 4.54pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

23 Sep 19 4.51pm

Originally posted by Matov

Works for me.

Ideally, I would like to see the entire education system privatised with parents issued vouchers which schools could compete for but I accept that my position on this is a minority one.

And therefore if people prefer the state to be responsible for the provision of education then there needs to be a total equality in that. One system, one curriculum and an onus on our politicians to have a stake in it.

I think there are good arguments for both private and no private education.

I'm kind of struggling to see how private education has particularly benefited this country as a whole since WW2. It's not that I'm against the principle of private education....but I'm more about what the result of it is.

As far as I can see it's just so the upper and middle classes can suck up all the best jobs and resources for themselves.

How is the actual country as a whole benefiting? It isn't.

So let the lefties have this one.....The middle and upper class dropped the ball as far as I'm concerned.

Let the nihilistic individualists who play at neo liberal socialism exist in mixed ability classes.....they want 'equality', lets give them a taste of that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Sep 2019 4.54pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 23 Sep 19 5.04pm
Originally posted by W12 I came from a sink estate in South London (one of the worse) and through hard work now have two children in private school. Recently I've been complaining to one of the schools that my son is being forced to attend an "Individuals in Society" lesson including every crappy social justice topic you can imagine - yes clearly left wing indoctrination involved. But the problem here is the government now mandate this anyway. I would still rather they were in private education as apart from anything else they are physically safer and have a better pupil / student ratio. My heart goes out to most people that have to use state schools although I know there are a few good ones (although generally hogged by the middle classes). I didn't create the pool you mention and have been actively campaigning to swim away from it. I would agree though that with most of the parents there is only one specific type of politics they will tolerate. James O'Brien is one of the other parents at the school for example. It's not a very "diverse" school by the way. Yours is an excellent post, it gives me pause. What can I say, you're the kind of person whose prodigy needs to be populating private schools. Perhaps this country wouldn't be in the mess it is in. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

23 Sep 19 5.04pm

Originally posted by W12

It's not a very "diverse" school by the way.

Yours is an excellent post, it gives me pause.

What can I say, you're the kind of person whose prodigy needs to be populating private schools. Perhaps this country wouldn't be in the mess it is in.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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YT Oxford 23 Sep 19 5.09pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Yours is an excellent post, it gives me pause. What can I say, you're the kind of person whose prodigy needs to be populating private schools. Perhaps this country wouldn't be in the mess it is in. A few years ago, such prodigy would likely have populated a grammar school, and that kind of person would have saved themselves a few quid. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 23 Sep 19 5.09pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yours is an excellent post, it gives me pause.

What can I say, you're the kind of person whose prodigy needs to be populating private schools. Perhaps this country wouldn't be in the mess it is in.

A few years ago, such prodigy would likely have populated a grammar school, and that kind of person would have saved themselves a few quid.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Sep 19 5.10pm
Both Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage were privately educated. Makes both members of a pretty exclusive "elite" group. Just saying! I can't personally think of a better reason for making sure no-one else is. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 23 Sep 19 5.10pm

Both Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage were privately educated. Makes both members of a pretty exclusive "elite" group. Just saying!

I can't personally think of a better reason for making sure no-one else is.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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chris123 hove actually 23 Sep 19 5.15pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I think there are good arguments for both private and no private education. I'm kind of struggling to see how private education has particularly benefited this country as a whole since WW2. It's not that I'm against the principle of private education....but I'm more about what the result of it is. As far as I can see it's just so the upper and middle classes can suck up all the best jobs and resources for themselves. How is the actual country as a whole benefiting? It isn't. So let the lefties have this one.....The middle and upper class dropped the ball as far as I'm concerned. Let the nihilistic individualists who play at neo liberal socialism exist in mixed ability classes.....they want 'equality', lets give them a taste of that. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Sep 2019 4.54pm) It comes down to choice surely?
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chris123

hove actually 23 Sep 19 5.15pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think there are good arguments for both private and no private education.

As far as I can see it's just so the upper and middle classes can suck up all the best jobs and resources for themselves.

How is the actual country as a whole benefiting? It isn't.

So let the lefties have this one.....The middle and upper class dropped the ball as far as I'm concerned.

Let the nihilistic individualists who play at neo liberal socialism exist in mixed ability classes.....they want 'equality', lets give them a taste of that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Sep 2019 4.54pm)

It comes down to choice surely?

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cryrst The garden of England 23 Sep 19 5.22pm
Many people have a brand new car and huge houses and holidays every year and their kids go to state schools. Others have a ten year old car a 3 bed semi and a holiday in hopton every year but pay private for their kids schooling. You cannot judge a book by its cover.
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cryrst

The garden of England 23 Sep 19 5.22pm

Many people have a brand new car and huge houses and holidays every year and their kids go to state schools.
Others have a ten year old car a 3 bed semi and a holiday in hopton every year but pay private for their kids schooling.
You cannot judge a book by its cover.

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cryrst The garden of England 23 Sep 19 5.24pm
Originally posted by cryrst Many people have a brand new car and huge houses and holidays every year and their kids go to state schools. Others have a ten year old car a 3 bed semi and a holiday in hopton every year but pay private for their kids schooling. You cannot judge a book by its cover. Personally I've got the latter. And my kids have left their state school.
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cryrst

The garden of England 23 Sep 19 5.24pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Personally I've got the latter.
And my kids have left their state school.

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serial thriller The Promised Land 23 Sep 19 5.32pm
Thomas Picketty is a great person to read if you're interested. He has laboriously gone through the data of social economies since the war, and showed that financialisation has led to a system where it's becoming easier to make money from the assets you already own than to make it if you have none. This isn't a sign of an effective system. Rather, he says this is what happened to the Dutch, Venetian and British empires at their peak, where capital got moved in to banks and endlessly speculated on, lowering levels of investment and enterprise. That period preceded the decline of those empires. We can go down one of two roads. Allow that system to continue to operate as it wants to, which means the proportion of wealth found in the rest of society will continue decreasing. Or we can take them on, support those in need and give future generations something to work for. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 23 Sep 19 5.32pm

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Thomas Picketty is a great person to read if you're interested. He has laboriously gone through the data of social economies since the war, and showed that financialisation has led to a system where it's becoming easier to make money from the assets you already own than to make it if you have none.

This isn't a sign of an effective system. Rather, he says this is what happened to the Dutch, Venetian and British empires at their peak, where capital got moved in to banks and endlessly speculated on, lowering levels of investment and enterprise. That period preceded the decline of those empires.

We can go down one of two roads. Allow that system to continue to operate as it wants to, which means the proportion of wealth found in the rest of society will continue decreasing. Or we can take them on, support those in need and give future generations something to work for.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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Teddy Eagle Online 23 Sep 19 5.38pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Both Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage were privately educated. Makes both members of a pretty exclusive "elite" group. Just saying! I can't personally think of a better reason for making sure no-one else is. In fairness some of my school colleagues went on to be armed robbers, drug dealers and gangsters so leader of a political party isn’t a totally bad option.
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Teddy Eagle Online

23 Sep 19 5.38pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Both Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage were privately educated. Makes both members of a pretty exclusive "elite" group. Just saying!

I can't personally think of a better reason for making sure no-one else is.

In fairness some of my school colleagues went on to be armed robbers, drug dealers and gangsters so leader of a political party isn’t a totally bad option.

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YT Oxford 23 Sep 19 5.39pm
Originally posted by cryrst Many people have a brand new car and huge houses and holidays every year and their kids go to state schools. Others have a ten year old car a 3 bed semi and a holiday in hopton every year but pay private for their kids schooling. You cannot judge a book by its cover. Well, when I say "3 bed semi", it were actually more like 'ole in the road covered wi' tarpaulin. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 23 Sep 19 5.39pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Well, when I say "3 bed semi", it were actually more like 'ole in the road covered wi' tarpaulin.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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Stirlingsays 23 Sep 19 6.04pm
Originally posted by YT A few years ago, such prodigy would likely have populated a grammar school, and that kind of person would have saved themselves a few quid. Yep, but again, look at the kind of middle class grammar schools have given us. They might as well have gone to secondary. There just aren't enough people made of the right stuff. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

23 Sep 19 6.04pm

Originally posted by YT

A few years ago, such prodigy would likely have populated a grammar school, and that kind of person would have saved themselves a few quid.

Yep, but again, look at the kind of middle class grammar schools have given us.

They might as well have gone to secondary. There just aren't enough people made of the right stuff.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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