Wilf’s was a pen yes and was quite rightly overturned, this is what VAR should be all about, decisions like that but the review of virtually EVERY goal (for 2 -3 mins) is a joke and ruining the moment of celebration, the other more subjective penalty reviews (both for and against) have been awful, some absolute shockers not given and a whole host of innocuous challenges deemed a penalty.

Just wait until we’re on the receiving end of a penalty decision like the ones at Norwich v Man Utd or the Brighton equaliser v Everton, it won’t be long and we will quite rightly be fuming.

We got very lucky with Arsenal’s third being disallowed but then again McArthur was fouled badly (blatant Double push in the back by Lacazette) for Arsenal's second, so that in effect evened itself out. Even so the bigger issue is VAR not picking up the foul on McArthur but then deciding that Luka was fouled by Chambers...both were the wrong decision and are very worrying for VAR going forward In its current format.

In seasons gone by we would of lost to the Arsenal 3 - 1 and there would barely be a word against it outside of Palace and the VAR should help to even things up as the big club bias has always been there. Obviously we will get some decisions go against us but overall things should be better for us

There is no f***ing house? I don't care what is previously documented. I am pointing out that fear factors into decision making and if you don't agree with that your commonsense has waned with age.

The performance of referees 'is' the VAR debate or maybe you don't understand refereeing? My point is that VAR alleviates the fear to some degree as referees have 'assistance'.

So I manage a Workshop which provides a safe learning environment for blokes struggling with PTSD and other mental health issues. Being a Palace fan isn't listed yet.

aha! the old I'm right and your wrong argument, I was wondering where it had gone!

I guess mine is on the wane as well, as I certainly don't think that fear is a factor in decision making for Referees. Fear of what?

Certainly the Refs are temporarily out of the spotlight, as it not the 'Refs Fault' anymore - it's VARs. But that should not make them void of the same criticism. in fact, If I were a ref it would likely increase my nervousness if VAR kept overriding my decisions - It'd means that the mistake was mine. Id want to make sure that When VAR was called it would back me up, not highlight my mistake.

Referees have a tremendously difficult job to do correctly, which due to the application of rules - in Particular the 'subjective' ones and the invention of the Slow motion replay - means that the scrutiny is based on ten times the amount of data that a Referee has at the time of the decision.

Are they trying to apply the rules to the best of their ability? Yes.
Can they be affected by Media and other 'off the pitch' factors? Yes. They're only human
Does fear come in to it? I don't think so. You're basically calling them out as a cheat..

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

I am not calling them out as a cheats - quite the opposite. I am saying that no referee has the ability to switch off the media merry-go-round that purports wrong doing by any said referee. Therefore, with their decisions under scrutiny that places a fear in their decision making. VAR enables them to have a more level playing field because they have support.

I disagree that VAR makes it harder. They are supported. If there is anything about VAR for refs to fear is that they are becoming the new factory workers and 'their job is being laid off in favour of computers.'

I was agreeing with Willo (spit) that big club bias is not there, but big club / media frenzy fear is, which makes a difficult job that much harder.

Your (Willo's) age doesn't come into it, I shouldn't have said that. Fear is there, without doubt.

Edited by pstrutt (30 Oct 2019 2.58pm)

So I manage a Workshop which provides a safe learning environment for blokes struggling with PTSD and other mental health issues. Being a Palace fan isn't listed yet.

Had VAR not been in place this season we would be in twelfth place with 12 points.
Wolves would be in our current sixth place.