I'd agree that some ideas evolve, though not all. Any reading of historical literature shows that there is a familiarity in how human relationships are. There are many examples from religion to meritocracy....ideas are repeated ad nauseam.

When it comes to immigration I think a comparison with the 18th century in regards to change is far off, which I appreciate and recognise is a point you make.

I think we would have to go back to 1066 or the Romans for serious comparisons on impacts.

In the immigration sense we only have to observe that outside Europe there has hardly been any significant change to demographics for thousands of years.....and where it did happen it was via war and genocide.

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest an 'end of days'. That said, I recognise that my commentary has been a bit glum....but that's because long term I'm not seeing the upside.

Rather I would predict an 'end of era', which is already happening in real time due to demographical change and the continual march of social liberalism on society in the UK and parts of Europe.

Have they been 'duped' though? What's the evidence for that? I don't really see the working classes supporting the rich or of having a belief in the opposite.

If you're referring to voting outcomes, lets not forget that voters are given choices and very often it's a choice between a pig and an another fatter uglier pig.

I would agree with you that a more direct democracy is the better more representative path. The 'elite' political class have been arcane for some decades now, yet as we know Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

As for being more 'inclusive'....forgive me, but as a social conservative with a small c....I shudder everytime I hear that word, though I can see how it's relevant here.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Nov 2019 6.33am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Vote Labour for:

Free WiFi
Free immigration
Free all the terrorists
Free rein to the EU
Free loaders charter
Free hand to the unions
Free of personal responsibility

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Yup, but nothing is free in life when Labour say they will only hit the rich I don't believe them. When they realise that they are not getting as much revenue from the super rich as ther thought they will do what Labour always does, hit the working man, sorry woman, sorry trans err forget it.

One more point

Yep, it would be excuses and finger pointing and the same scenario that has played out with socialist governments everywhere else.

To keep rich people in your country you need an incentive.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Nov 2019 8.30am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

This is one area I think Labour have a good point.

The state of people teeth countrywide is terrible for some it's the cost for others it's the lack of an NHS dentist but for many it's pure ignorance.

I had problems with my teeth when I was young so going to the NHS dentist every 6 months was a necessary evil and it became habitual. I still go every 6 months although I had to go private for lack of NHS dentists.

I am amazed at the number of people who tell me they never visit a dentist in many cases it simply they because don't think they need to, until of course they do.

Add into this the amount of sugar people now eat and it's no surprise that this is a health issue.

Labour maybe onto something here we have to get people going to the dentists at least once a year. We also need more NHS dentists. So fair play to Labour they are trying something.

Edited by Badger11 (17 Nov 2019 9.06am)

One more point

Unqualified posts can be quite misleading, particularly when they get quoted without a little digging.