Rarely agree with you willo (especially about referees) but this time I wholeheartedly concur!

so you are here just to attempt brainwashing us over to your point of view? Is your real name Kim Jong Truro??..Little tip.....you will NEVER change me to your way of thinking! Im in Truro on Sunday, may bump into you?

"Certainly" really?

If we see the new intake of tory MPs exercising their own judgement and voting according to their personal conscience then I agree. However if all they do is dutifully follow the dictates of the whips then you then have to consider the provinence of what they are voting on to assess where effective control lies.

Also I am loath to put words in your mouth but I suspect if there was a labour majority you would be asserting that the real control lies with the union backers. And you would have a point.

1. I am accussed of "Verbal diarrhoea" ! - I could barely contain my mirth.You are an erudite soul so I am sure you can rearrange the words "Black the kettle calling pot".Snorts of derision and incredulity all round.

2.I didn't accuse you of "Vaunting superiority" I claimed with some justification that your comments are delivered in a TONE of "Vaunting superiority" and was not intended as an insult casting aspersions as to your honesty,integrity, cerebral capacity or physical features etc etc.

Of course I can take an alternative viewpoint to the opposition (I am sure you understand what this means) and be strident in my repudiation of the messages imparted, indeed as you are fully aware forums such as these are a vehicle for debate and discussion with differing opinions order of the day.I am fully confident in my opinions as I suspect you are of yours and of course we will defend our positions with vim and vigour.

In politics, Oppositions attack Goverments, the Governments attacks the oppositions so why Trump has been highlighted in this manner is somewhat befuddling.

I really think that the debate is veering of the rails and perhaps should return to the subject matter - so "Who is to blame?" !!!!

Edited by Willo (17 Dec 2019 7.39pm)

Talking down to people again?? Have a day off.

Well said. I have been making much the same point but in a different way.

With the recent examples of the rebels (I prefer honest, brave and convinced MPS) being thrown out and then failing to get back in as independents, the requirement to sign up to supporting the manifesto and the huge majority it's going to require someone to have really big balls to vote against the whips.

So we now have no real idea on who is setting the policy. Some suggest it is the primary city donors whose agenda has nothing to do with what is actually in the country's interests but their own. It certainly is not though the MPs, who are the people's representatives.

Of course the voters still have to give their approval but with Labour as bad as they are and seemingly determined to commit suicide, the Tories could do almost anything and still get away with it at the moment.

We so need the emergence of a centrist party able to offer a genuine alternative now more than ever.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.