Ultimately, when push comes to shove, if you are a European and you aren't with the US then you're nothing but a useful idiot.

Because the US's enemies would just as well cut your neck as Trump's.

This doesn't mean that you have to agree with everything however or even keep quiet. But it does mean that you should know which side your bread is buttered.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jan 2020 12.05pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

It's an election campaign year in America. A war stimulates (initially) the economy and also creates a wave of patriotism. Look what the Falklands war did for Maggie Thatcher.

Trump isn't as much of a mug as people seem. He's playing a political game, where (somewhat to his credit), he has previously sought political/trade resolutions with other countries, rather than military options.

Killing that Iranian General seems quite reckless. I don't think they've thought the whole scenario through, to the extent that other countries are taking sides.

Trump is going to have to pull something special in the Summer/Autumn, to boost his popularity. Let's hope we're all around to see him fck it up.

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

On LBC tonite there was a great commentator on at about 4ish.
Basically this Iranian dude bought his end by attacking the American embassy.hypothetically obviously his militia.
It embarrassed the usa so he gone.
Trump isnt the psycho you think.
Imagine all these despots now wondering wheres the next drone,is it for me?
Clearly thought out and for a reason.
I feel it could bring the opposite of war and a peace between states and countries.
If trump loses the next election then it's going south.

Carry on up the USA

Red and Blue Army!

I have very mixed feelings about this. Whilst I agree it is very unlikely to be the precursor for WW3 it could spark a significant worsening of the problems in the middle east.

Part of me detests seeing the world's leading democracy behaving unlawfully. They aren't at war with Iran and provocation ought not be a reason to lower your own standards. Demonstrating to the world at large that you are above such things shows leadership and how to be responsible.

Another part of me understands the cold hard realities and the benefits of intimidation via the demonstration of superior technology and power.

Would it have been better to have done this more quietly, via some kind of proxy, thus providing believable deniability? That would have given cover for the allies and the rest of the world, even if Iran would still be mad. That it was immediately acknowledged as a "hit" by Trump, and positioned as a great victory, speaks more of playing to internal US politics in an election year than a carefully analysed military strategy.

As the only long term solution has to be regime change in Iran will this make it more or less likely? It seems the jury is still out on that and I don't have an opinion yet either.

What worries me most is having Trump as the Commander in Chief. I just don't have any confidence that he is listening to, and taking advice from, his senior military commanders. Is there a long term strategy? Is there any kind of strategy beyond wanting to look more decisive than Obama?

Where will this leave us? Will we, as we should, try to be, together with our European allies, the voices of reason? Or will we, in the post Brexit period, feel the need to cosy up to Trump to ensure his ego is sufficiently lubricated? The very fact that such thoughts come to mind makes me feel that this has much more to do with US politics than concerns about Iran's regional aspirations or nuclear capabilities.

If we see Johnson using weasel words to brown nose Trump in the coming days then my fears will be proved correct.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (07 Jan 2020 12.05am)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Iran has been in a state of internal political turmoil for the past few years due to the crippling effects of embargo Trump has placed on them.

Civil unrest was growing and with it probably a desire for armistice with the US.

But Trump has undone all of that. Now the Iranians have a martyr, and now their political leaders can point away from their corruption and economic weakness towards a renewed sense of nationalism and hatred of the West.

And all for what? So that Trump can avoid scrutiny at home and potentially boost his numbers for the election.

This is a man who ducked out of Vietnam for a bullsh*t medical condition. He's now risking the lives of thousands of US citizens for personal gain.

The middle East will never be resolved until we get real about the reasons we are actually involved there.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4