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View RainhamEagle's Profile RainhamEagle Flag Bermondsey 23 Mar 20 12.26pm Send a Private Message to RainhamEagle Add RainhamEagle as a friend

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

Construction site in Waterloo this morning, every single one of these people has the ability to spread the virus on to someone more vulnerable and chance to exacerbate and extend the crisis.

Why the government has not mandated closure of businesses at this point baffles me. All these men will be self employed and as such don’t have cover in the provisions announced on Friday so of course they would still go to work.

It’s going to be easy to try and blame the public for going out And spreading this but without proper support in place non essential workers will continue to go to work.

I quit my job on a site in Southwark this morning, not staying in a clear germzone where people actively know they have symptoms but persist to go to work.

I had over 500 men on my job, who all had to use the same metric fingerprint system upon entering and leaving site, followed by cramming into a canteen come 7:30 like your picture shown above.

 

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.TUX. Flag 23 Mar 20 12.33pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Many 1000s absolutely love (d) the fact they could work their own hours and be their own boss.
Probably more than we hear about.
Their wages are higher typically than a paye.
Their tax is lower than a paye and their NI is lower with rebates on the tax if you have a decent accountant. (The pen is mightier than the sword)
Maybe if someone had bothered to talk about the recent suggested rise in NI payments their could have been a way of there being payments back at times like this. Unfortunatly you got everyone moaning that £6 a week would be too much and the self employed this and that. Including politicians trying to ramp up their voters. Where is he now.yup sitting in his house on £7 million quid.
Blame doesnt lie fully with the government on this.
The rainy day is here now and self employed should have saved for it. That is the point and the reality.i pay over 12k a year in tax and NI.
How many self employed earning the same or more than me do. A minimal amount would be my guess.
If the government paid 80% of their DECLARED annual tax bill I'm sure many many 1000s would still be up s*** creek without a paddle.
As tom replied a while ago. You cant have it both ways I'm afraid. Running with the hound and playing with the fox clearly isnt successful.

Surely this should apply to everyone and not just the s/e?
Can we include the banking sector that only a decade or so after the last crash they caused, being bailed-out yet again?

 


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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 23 Mar 20 1.03pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Just how long do they think this type of economic approach can last?

I always considered the 'herd immunity' phrase to be misleading, however I definitely don't see the sense in locking everything down.

If you are under fifty and healthy your chances of dying of this are extremely low. You might catch it and be ill, some won't even know they have had it.

We should be putting money into nationally isolating those who are at risk as best we can......not destroying the economy.

That's my take anyway.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Mar 2020 12.04pm)

Good points. The herd immunity thing is complete assumption anyway, there’s no proof yet that it is actually applicable to this virus. It’s a calculated guess.

The big error was not expanding the testing further but frankly, even those countries who have locked everything down early will find all they’ve done is delayed it rather than eliminated and it will start rising again as the roll back - although that is arguably a better situation to be in than us or Italy.

Providing a working vaccine appears relatively soonish that will be enough to placate the markets and create a massive bounce. Will then take ages to be administered though - don’t think this is going to start disappearing until next summer, at the earliest

As for the economy - ‘whatever it takes, for as long as it takes’. Bud might not like the reality but the reality is more and more money will be created to prevent the alternative option, which is total social and economic collapse. 08 and Mario set the precedent and if various governments repeating his soundbite somehow surprises you I’m not sure what you thought was going to happen. What this will mean, rather obviously, is an excuse for at least another 10-15 years of ‘austerity’.

The other interesting thing is that this will accelerate automation and money going into how to reduce reliance on the human workforce - along with speeding up technological integration - as a bonus it’s letting them trial universal income on a massive scale.

Oh yes, and esports / game developers are going to do extremely well out of this.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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.TUX. Flag 23 Mar 20 1.06pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Good points. The herd immunity thing is complete assumption anyway, there’s no proof yet that it is actually applicable to this virus. It’s a calculated guess.

The big error was not expanding the testing further but frankly, even those countries who have locked everything down early will find all they’ve done is delayed it rather than eliminated and it will start rising again as the roll back - although that is arguably a better situation to be in than us or Italy.

Providing a working vaccine appears relatively soonish that will be enough to placate the markets and create a massive bounce. Will then take ages to be administered though - don’t think this is going to start disappearing until next summer, at the earliest

As for the economy - ‘whatever it takes, for as long as it takes’. Bud might not like the reality but the reality is more and more money will be created to prevent the alternative option, which is total social and economic collapse. 08 and Mario set the precedent and if various governments repeating his soundbite somehow surprises you I’m not sure what you thought was going to happen. What this will mean, rather obviously, is an excuse for at least another 10-15 years of ‘austerity’.

The other interesting thing is that this will accelerate automation and money going into how to reduce reliance on the human workforce - along with speeding up technological integration - as a bonus it’s letting them trial universal income on a massive scale.

Oh yes, and esports / game developers are going to do extremely well out of this.

Bud no like.
Bud angry.

 


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jeeagles Flag 23 Mar 20 1.15pm

Originally posted by RainhamEagle

I quit my job on a site in Southwark this morning, not staying in a clear germzone where people actively know they have symptoms but persist to go to work.

I had over 500 men on my job, who all had to use the same metric fingerprint system upon entering and leaving site, followed by cramming into a canteen come 7:30 like your picture shown above.

Just highlights that all the Health and Safety measures in the industry are clearly only promoted to protect the profits of big businesses and they couldn't actually give a s*** about the workers.

Drink and drug testing exists everywhere but they won't send people home if they show symtoms of Coronavirus.

There is an argument that they'd have to get sites to a position where they are safe and secure before they stop work, but this just seems like profiteering.

On the flip-side. I'd argue that now would be a great time to undertake all the road, rail, and utilities work. Reduced levels of traffic would make it a much safer time to do this.

 

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View SavoyTruffle's Profile SavoyTruffle Flag 23 Mar 20 1.17pm Send a Private Message to SavoyTruffle Add SavoyTruffle as a friend

Originally posted by eagleman13

Is that the old 'Shell' building?

I’m not familiar with that building but this picture was taken at a site on Fenchurch Street.

Original photo comes from the below twitter feed. Includes photos with today’s papers for proof too

 

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View SavoyTruffle's Profile SavoyTruffle Flag 23 Mar 20 1.23pm Send a Private Message to SavoyTruffle Add SavoyTruffle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The brains behind the throne.

Johnson's bottle went.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Mar 2020 12.26pm)

The Times editorial yesterday which raised Cummings comments re the handling of this also claimed he himself did back down from the ‘herd immunity’ when the stark reality of Italy started to filter through. Seems all it did was delay our response by about a week.

 

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View SavoyTruffle's Profile SavoyTruffle Flag 23 Mar 20 1.32pm Send a Private Message to SavoyTruffle Add SavoyTruffle as a friend

Originally posted by RainhamEagle

I quit my job on a site in Southwark this morning, not staying in a clear germzone where people actively know they have symptoms but persist to go to work.

I had over 500 men on my job, who all had to use the same metric fingerprint system upon entering and leaving site, followed by cramming into a canteen come 7:30 like your picture shown above.

Sad to hear you’ve been forced into that but understandable, hopefully the chancellor lays out some support for the self employed this evening.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 23 Mar 20 1.33pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

The Times editorial yesterday which raised Cummings comments re the handling of this also claimed he himself did back down from the ‘herd immunity’ when the stark reality of Italy started to filter through. Seems all it did was delay our response by about a week.

Our response being to destroy the economy.

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 23 Mar 20 1.44pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Good points. The herd immunity thing is complete assumption anyway, there’s no proof yet that it is actually applicable to this virus. It’s a calculated guess.

The big error was not expanding the testing further but frankly, even those countries who have locked everything down early will find all they’ve done is delayed it rather than eliminated and it will start rising again as the roll back - although that is arguably a better situation to be in than us or Italy.

Providing a working vaccine appears relatively soonish that will be enough to placate the markets and create a massive bounce. Will then take ages to be administered though - don’t think this is going to start disappearing until next summer, at the earliest

As for the economy - ‘whatever it takes, for as long as it takes’. Bud might not like the reality but the reality is more and more money will be created to prevent the alternative option, which is total social and economic collapse. 08 and Mario set the precedent and if various governments repeating his soundbite somehow surprises you I’m not sure what you thought was going to happen. What this will mean, rather obviously, is an excuse for at least another 10-15 years of ‘austerity’.

The other interesting thing is that this will accelerate automation and money going into how to reduce reliance on the human workforce - along with speeding up technological integration - as a bonus it’s letting them trial universal income on a massive scale.

Oh yes, and esports / game developers are going to do extremely well out of this.

It's an interesting and educated post.

Automation might be brought forward quicker, if they indeed can move it faster and still be safe....perhaps that is where compromises will be made.

I don't think 'austerity' would work again this soon....You'd get Labour....Also, rightly or wrongly I think universal basic income will be resisted for a long time yet.

Where I would give an alternative viewpoint is in saying that a more normal response like say...and I know I know...Japan is taking wouldn't...in my view, lead to total social and economic collapse.

I view what is happening as self harming on an massive scale via managerial over reaction.

This virus is nowhere near as holistically dangerous as Spanish flu was....I could only agree with this type of response if we were dealing with something as deadly as the black death.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Mar 2020 1.46pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View SavoyTruffle's Profile SavoyTruffle Flag 23 Mar 20 1.46pm Send a Private Message to SavoyTruffle Add SavoyTruffle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Our response being to destroy the economy.

Would you say the same in a time of war?

Economies recover, dead people do not.

Edited by SavoyTruffle (23 Mar 2020 1.50pm)

Edited by SavoyTruffle (23 Mar 2020 1.55pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 23 Mar 20 1.51pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

Would you say the same in a time of war?

Economies recover, dead people do not.

This isn't a time of war.

The nearest compatible is the Spanish flu, which was far stronger.....we didn't behave like this and the estimated death toll from that was 228,000.

We lost something like 400,000 in WW2......That was a fight for survival in some ways.

If we did absolutely nothing....which I don't agree with....we still wouldn't lose a tiny fraction of that number.

This is like destroying our economy over the Falklands.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Mar 2020 1.54pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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