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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 02 May 20 8.06am Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

In 2008 we committed 0.7% of GDP to PHE pursuing global health assistance and strategies for precisely this reason. We played a big role in managing the Ebola outbreak in 2014.

As with most events when it comes to humans - we quickly forget what happened in the near past and focus on the now. Do we really need that? We don’t need to fund that. I don’t remember that. It wasn’t that bad was it?

It’s not a political issue. It’s a human trait. It’s how we’re wired - history will always repeat itself until we have a system that can predict for us.

Cycle forward 12 years and adequate funding to prepare for this kind of scenario got binned a long time ago. We were simulating for pandemic response in 2012 (I think we know why in that specific scenario) And now here we are.

We’ve not done badly but let’s not kid ourselves and think we’ve done ‘well’.

To say no one knows how they’d prepare for it on the face of it is true - But also insanely obvious

What you’re not thinking about or even aware of is what was being done to help reduce the unknowns in this exact situation was killed off some time ago - and this is the result. We had a strategy and we got complacent, had to cut budgets (allegedly) and went for the thing they felt had the least chance of reoccurrence based on memory.

Foot and mouth, BSE. Happened ages ago innit

SARS, Ebola - not our problem. We’re an island, we’ll be fine

Classic normalcy bias. Take the first easy answer and move on. The majority of humanity is a joke.


So if we'd thrown bucket loads of money at preparation for a pandemic, bought and stored PPE to cover EVERY type of viral or bacterial infection (that required for Ebola is vastly different from that required for COVID-19)and stockpiled it for years and years (never mind that most of it would have been wasted by degrading before ever being used as it is so specialised) we'd have been ok then?

Foot & Mouth, BSE SARS and Ebola were not global pandemics - you did not have 2/3rds of the world scrabbling to get PPE and ventilators simultaneously, and because they are all ones that are known and understood, any response to an outbreak will be swift and accurately targeted. COVID-19 was new, unknown and initially unpredictable in its behaviour.

Yes,you can have a strategy for pandemic planning, but you cannot dot the i's and cross the t's until you actually know the full type and characteristics of what you are dealing with: unknown is exactly that - you can allow in your planning that there may be unknown factors, but you cannot plan for an unknown by it's very nature.

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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Sir James Hird Flag Mount Martha 02 May 20 8.38am

Hi Guys,
What a b****** this virus is.
Being an ex pat, it gives me pain that there are so many fatalities.
Our deaths for whole country is around 90.
First thing our government did was stop all international flights. Kept cruise ships away (except one) Most of our break outs originated from cruise ship Ruby Princess. The locked down all states, no travelling. schools on line and thats it.
Stay safe.
Mike

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 02 May 20 9.53am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud

Nonsense, and throw in a comma or full stop now and again!

Woosh

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 02 May 20 9.59am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

Woosh

Also nice to be criticised by both left and right

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 02 May 20 10.13am Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by becky


So if we'd thrown bucket loads of money at preparation for a pandemic, bought and stored PPE to cover EVERY type of viral or bacterial infection (that required for Ebola is vastly different from that required for COVID-19)and stockpiled it for years and years (never mind that most of it would have been wasted by degrading before ever being used as it is so specialised) we'd have been ok then?

Foot & Mouth, BSE SARS and Ebola were not global pandemics - you did not have 2/3rds of the world scrabbling to get PPE and ventilators simultaneously, and because they are all ones that are known and understood, any response to an outbreak will be swift and accurately targeted. COVID-19 was new, unknown and initially unpredictable in its behaviour.

Yes,you can have a strategy for pandemic planning, but you cannot dot the i's and cross the t's until you actually know the full type and characteristics of what you are dealing with: unknown is exactly that - you can allow in your planning that there may be unknown factors, but you cannot plan for an unknown by it's very nature.

You miss the point entirely.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View Henry of Peckham's Profile Henry of Peckham Flag Eton Mess 02 May 20 10.27am Send a Private Message to Henry of Peckham Add Henry of Peckham as a friend

Originally posted by Sir James Hird

Hi Guys,
What a b****** this virus is.
Being an ex pat, it gives me pain that there are so many fatalities.
Our deaths for whole country is around 90.
First thing our government did was stop all international flights. Kept cruise ships away (except one) Most of our break outs originated from cruise ship Ruby Princess. The locked down all states, no travelling. schools on line and thats it.
Stay safe.
Mike

We didn't ... and then "led by science" our government took another three weeks to notice almost every other country was doing it. We're still letting people into the country unchecked and now we're talking about easing some lockdown measures for the rest of us because, we're not absolutely sure but, we think only the equivalent of three full planeloads of people are dying from Covid-19 each day. Impressive eh?

 


Denial is not just a river in Egypt

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View SavoyTruffle's Profile SavoyTruffle Flag 02 May 20 10.34am Send a Private Message to SavoyTruffle Add SavoyTruffle as a friend

It’s literally just a game to them.

Who cares if loads of people are dead because we’ve got people who massage our figures and make us look good.

At a time when so few trust political leadership this shouldn’t be celebrated. Seen people complaining for on weeks here about fake figures coming out of China, if blatant lies were coming from Iran, China, Russia etc people would call it what it is, why do some seem complicit.

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 02 May 20 10.39am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle


Who cares if loads of people are dead because we’ve got people who massage our figures and make us look good.

At a time when so few trust political leadership this shouldn’t be celebrated. Seen people complaining for on weeks here about fake figures coming out of China, if blatant lies were coming from Iran, China, Russia etc people would call it what it is, why do some seem complicit.

This thread would be quite quiet if it wasn't for HOL's pair of commies who are using every opportunity to bash the government

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 02 May 20 11.08am Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

This thread would be quite quiet if it wasn't for HOL's pair of commies who are using every opportunity to bash the government

Spot on. Government bashing at this time is pathetic and childish imo. Ffs let us see this through and then let the enquiries begin.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 02 May 20 11.14am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

Also nice to be criticised by both left and right

I just re read that one and it was a genuine question. You could have loosed on me but you didnt. Fair play sorry bout that. Lucky we arnt all as clever as me or we'd all be stupid

 

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View SavoyTruffle's Profile SavoyTruffle Flag 02 May 20 11.40am Send a Private Message to SavoyTruffle Add SavoyTruffle as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

This thread would be quite quiet if it wasn't for HOL's pair of commies who are using every opportunity to bash the government

I think you’ve just proven my point, resort to labels rather than critically think about the point I’ve made.

If asking to not be lied to is bashing the government then guilty as charged. If it makes you feel better to put your head in the sand that’s fair enough. Thought there were more principled posters on the HOL.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 02 May 20 12.22pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

It’s literally just a game to them.

Who cares if loads of people are dead because we’ve got people who massage our figures and make us look good.

At a time when so few trust political leadership this shouldn’t be celebrated. Seen people complaining for on weeks here about fake figures coming out of China, if blatant lies were coming from Iran, China, Russia etc people would call it what it is, why do some seem complicit.

'twas ever thus with politicians.

After being slow out of the blocks in testing the government set an ambitious target personally I don't think we should get too hung up about the numbers. I am still not convinced what good this will do.

For instance if someone self isolates by the time they have an appointment and get the test results back they will probably be free of the virus anyway. What we really need is an instant test.

As to the numbers what should really matter is from now on we are doing mass testing on a daily basis and to try and ramp up the number continuously.

As to the lies well each government has their on way of recording these numbers. Belgium has a high death rate because they include "suspected" deaths which we don't. Others do or don't include deaths outside of hospitals.

As others have said we shall have to wait for the inquiry before we know how well or badly we have done.

One final point it has been suggested if Corbyn was in power they would have done better than the Tories I don't believe that.

If we can agree for one moment that the government has followed the expert advice then Corbyn would have done the same thing and probably made the same mistakes. The argument that Labour would have put more resources into the NHS and so be better prepared only works if Labour had been in power for at least 5 years.

I accept that the Tories have underfunded the NHS but a 3 month old Corbyn government would not have time to turn the NHS around.

Anyway whatever mistakes have been made in the past I prefer to focus on the here and now rather than the wishful thinking if only the voters had ...

Edited by Badger11 (02 May 2020 12.28pm)

 


One more point

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