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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Aug 20 5.37pm
Originally posted by Lombardinho I've tried but failed, Sportyteacher, to make your "very real risks" bit go bold. I'm not very good at using computers. I was then going to illustrate the infection to death rate of Covid 19. I'm going to have to wear a mask because I need to use public transport when I eventually get back to work. I try not to judge others but when I see people wearing one in the open air when there's nobody within a hundred metres of themselves, I sometimes can't help judging. Funnily enough, while on public transport and seeing someone else not wearing one, I've found myself judging them too! My mind has, no doubt, been interfered with! However, when I see a small child wearing one, my heart literally sinks. There's been no safety checks on prolonged use of these masks. Without a proper risk assessment, how do we know mask wearing won't increase your chances of testing positive? So, as a father of a 3 year old, I'll go to prison before I let someone put a mask on her. Her mother, more than likely will be okay with it. Yes, I'm not happy with the way the world has changed these past few months, in case you were wondering! If that makes me "evil", Rudi Hedman, so be it. I'm hoping enough parents will apply logic and say enough is enough when the authorities try to put a barrier to their child's ability to breath oxygen on their face. If they don't I really fear for the future. Before I go here are the figures... Even if you're 100 years old, the chances of you dying after testing positive for covid 19 are 0.26% And if you're under 70 years old that figure drops to 0.04% I believe it has been shown that wearing a mask has no impact at all on the level of exygen that is consumed. It's purpose is to stop any large droplets expelled by coughs or sneezes reaching others. I have not heard anyone yet suggest that children ought to be wearing them, or that anyone should be when outside. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Aug 20 5.37pm

Originally posted by Lombardinho

I've tried but failed, Sportyteacher, to make your "very real risks" bit go bold. I'm not very good at using computers.
I was then going to illustrate the infection to death rate of Covid 19.

I'm going to have to wear a mask because I need to use public transport when I eventually get back to work.
I try not to judge others but when I see people wearing one in the open air when there's nobody within a hundred metres of themselves, I sometimes can't help judging.
Funnily enough, while on public transport and seeing someone else not wearing one, I've found myself judging them too!
My mind has, no doubt, been interfered with!
However, when I see a small child wearing one, my heart literally sinks.
There's been no safety checks on prolonged use of these masks. Without a proper risk assessment, how do we know mask wearing won't increase your chances of testing positive?
So, as a father of a 3 year old, I'll go to prison before I let someone put a mask on her. Her mother, more than likely will be okay with it.
Yes, I'm not happy with the way the world has changed these past few months, in case you were wondering!
If that makes me "evil", Rudi Hedman, so be it.
I'm hoping enough parents will apply logic and say enough is enough when the authorities try to put a barrier to their child's ability to breath oxygen on their face.
If they don't I really fear for the future.

Before I go here are the figures...

Even if you're 100 years old, the chances of you dying after testing positive for covid 19 are 0.26%

And if you're under 70 years old that figure drops to 0.04%

I believe it has been shown that wearing a mask has no impact at all on the level of exygen that is consumed. It's purpose is to stop any large droplets expelled by coughs or sneezes reaching others. I have not heard anyone yet suggest that children ought to be wearing them, or that anyone should be when outside.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Aug 20 5.51pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Due to lockdown, for every 3 deaths from (recorded as) Covid, there are 2 other deaths. Protect the NHS. Save lives. Think others are evil for not agreeing with this s***. Where do you get these statistics? Surely, because of the way C19 deaths are being recorded differently across the world, the real measurement is the number of excess deaths this year compared to normal. The recent release of "all-cause" mortality by the ONS in western Europe is very revealing. The UK had the highest number of excess deaths in Europe compared to it's past 5 year average. Only C19 can account for them! Spain and Italy had higher peaks, but overall we have fared worst of all. Sweden doesn't look too good either. [Link] For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Aug 20 5.51pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Due to lockdown, for every 3 deaths from (recorded as) Covid, there are 2 other deaths.

Protect the NHS. Save lives.
Think others are evil for not agreeing with this s***.

Where do you get these statistics?

Surely, because of the way C19 deaths are being recorded differently across the world, the real measurement is the number of excess deaths this year compared to normal. The recent release of "all-cause" mortality by the ONS in western Europe is very revealing.

The UK had the highest number of excess deaths in Europe compared to it's past 5 year average. Only C19 can account for them! Spain and Italy had higher peaks, but overall we have fared worst of all.

Sweden doesn't look too good either.

[Link]

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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BlueJay UK 09 Aug 20 6.15pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I saw my doctor friend today she pointed out that our local hospitals are full of people who are still suffering the effects of the virus. Permanane damage has been done to them mainly their lungs and they may well die months after being infected or have a lifetime of continuing health issues. Good post. It is perfectly possible to have a 'get on with it' attitude to society, but also not delude ourselves into what it is we're actually getting on with. Even aside from lungs the increasing number of heart issues that are popping up in individuals with even mild or asymptomatic does offer pause for thought. 78% of COVID-19 patients show signs of heart damage after recovery - [Link] This paper studied 100 recovered patients and found cardiac involvement in 78% of them, 60% had ongoing myocardial inflammation. Of the 100 patients, 67 of them recovered at home, 18 of which were asymptomatic. 33 were hospitalized, 2 of which were on ventilators. The cardiac issues were independent of Covid severity and pre-existing conditions. Studies like the above definitely need larger follow-ups to clarify their findings. We have absolutely no idea whether this disease causes heart issues in children for instance, or adults who don't even realise they've had it at the time. To me it's worth knowing the answer to questions like this. Nor do we know if these changes are temporary or permanent, largely inconsequential or serious. The same applies to neurological issues. There are lots of unknowns as this is still so new that it will take time to ascertain. The best assessment of data so far indicates that 10-15% of people 'don't recover quickly'. Which means what exactly? Again is this something that will linger or even worsen into chronic disease or the complete opposite for most of these people, something that they will eventually shrug off. It's an unknown. People have got very caught up on the death figures but there's clearly a lot more to it than that. Only further research over time will provide the answers. By then many or even most of us will have contracted covid-19 and so we should be very eager to learn of the findings. Do what you feel is best for you and yours at every step is what I say. Edited by BlueJay (09 Aug 2020 6.18pm)
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BlueJay

UK 09 Aug 20 6.15pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I saw my doctor friend today she pointed out that our local hospitals are full of people who are still suffering the effects of the virus.

Permanane damage has been done to them mainly their lungs and they may well die months after being infected or have a lifetime of continuing health issues.

Good post. It is perfectly possible to have a 'get on with it' attitude to society, but also not delude ourselves into what it is we're actually getting on with.

Even aside from lungs the increasing number of heart issues that are popping up in individuals with even mild or asymptomatic does offer pause for thought.

78% of COVID-19 patients show signs of heart damage after recovery - [Link]

This paper studied 100 recovered patients and found cardiac involvement in 78% of them, 60% had ongoing myocardial inflammation. Of the 100 patients, 67 of them recovered at home, 18 of which were asymptomatic. 33 were hospitalized, 2 of which were on ventilators. The cardiac issues were independent of Covid severity and pre-existing conditions.

Studies like the above definitely need larger follow-ups to clarify their findings. We have absolutely no idea whether this disease causes heart issues in children for instance, or adults who don't even realise they've had it at the time. To me it's worth knowing the answer to questions like this. Nor do we know if these changes are temporary or permanent, largely inconsequential or serious. The same applies to neurological issues. There are lots of unknowns as this is still so new that it will take time to ascertain.

The best assessment of data so far indicates that 10-15% of people 'don't recover quickly'. Which means what exactly? Again is this something that will linger or even worsen into chronic disease or the complete opposite for most of these people, something that they will eventually shrug off. It's an unknown. People have got very caught up on the death figures but there's clearly a lot more to it than that. Only further research over time will provide the answers. By then many or even most of us will have contracted covid-19 and so we should be very eager to learn of the findings. Do what you feel is best for you and yours at every step is what I say.

Edited by BlueJay (09 Aug 2020 6.18pm)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Aug 20 6.17pm
Originally posted by Lombardinho I've tried but failed, Sportyteacher, to make your "very real risks" bit go bold. I'm not very good at using computers. I was then going to illustrate the infection to death rate of Covid 19. I'm going to have to wear a mask because I need to use public transport when I eventually get back to work. I try not to judge others but when I see people wearing one in the open air when there's nobody within a hundred metres of themselves, I sometimes can't help judging. Funnily enough, while on public transport and seeing someone else not wearing one, I've found myself judging them too! My mind has, no doubt, been interfered with! However, when I see a small child wearing one, my heart literally sinks. There's been no safety checks on prolonged use of these masks. Without a proper risk assessment, how do we know mask wearing won't increase your chances of testing positive? So, as a father of a 3 year old, I'll go to prison before I let someone put a mask on her. Her mother, more than likely will be okay with it. Yes, I'm not happy with the way the world has changed these past few months, in case you were wondering! If that makes me "evil", Rudi Hedman, so be it. I'm hoping enough parents will apply logic and say enough is enough when the authorities try to put a barrier to their child's ability to breath oxygen on their face. If they don't I really fear for the future. Before I go here are the figures... Even if you're 100 years old, the chances of you dying after testing positive for covid 19 are 0.26% And if you're under 70 years old that figure drops to 0.04% I�m with you. I was joking the other lot think we�re evil or there�s something wrong with us. I too think you can become ill wearing a mask. I e seen on twitter there�s appointment and treatment evidence of relatives who�ve had serious health repercussions from wearing them already, plus they lower your immune system. No wonder the Japanese get on so well with them in their sterilised cities. Not for here. Masks can F off. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 09 Aug 20 6.17pm

Originally posted by Lombardinho

I've tried but failed, Sportyteacher, to make your "very real risks" bit go bold. I'm not very good at using computers.
I was then going to illustrate the infection to death rate of Covid 19.

I'm going to have to wear a mask because I need to use public transport when I eventually get back to work.
I try not to judge others but when I see people wearing one in the open air when there's nobody within a hundred metres of themselves, I sometimes can't help judging.
Funnily enough, while on public transport and seeing someone else not wearing one, I've found myself judging them too!
My mind has, no doubt, been interfered with!
However, when I see a small child wearing one, my heart literally sinks.
There's been no safety checks on prolonged use of these masks. Without a proper risk assessment, how do we know mask wearing won't increase your chances of testing positive?
So, as a father of a 3 year old, I'll go to prison before I let someone put a mask on her. Her mother, more than likely will be okay with it.
Yes, I'm not happy with the way the world has changed these past few months, in case you were wondering!
If that makes me "evil", Rudi Hedman, so be it.
I'm hoping enough parents will apply logic and say enough is enough when the authorities try to put a barrier to their child's ability to breath oxygen on their face.
If they don't I really fear for the future.

Before I go here are the figures...

Even if you're 100 years old, the chances of you dying after testing positive for covid 19 are 0.26%

And if you're under 70 years old that figure drops to 0.04%

I�m with you. I was joking the other lot think we�re evil or there�s something wrong with us. I too think you can become ill wearing a mask. I e seen on twitter there�s appointment and treatment evidence of relatives who�ve had serious health repercussions from wearing them already, plus they lower your immune system. No wonder the Japanese get on so well with them in their sterilised cities. Not for here. Masks can F off.

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Aug 20 6.19pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Where do you get these statistics? Surely, because of the way C19 deaths are being recorded differently across the world, the real measurement is the number of excess deaths this year compared to normal. The recent release of "all-cause" mortality by the ONS in western Europe is very revealing. The UK had the highest number of excess deaths in Europe compared to it's past 5 year average. Only C19 can account for them! Spain and Italy had higher peaks, but overall we have fared worst of all. Sweden doesn't look too good either. [Link] It�s been in a few I think broadsheets. What does it say about Sweden? Sweden are not in the worst de order countries and they had an even worse care home issue. They didn�t wreck their economy and put millions on furlough and eventually on the dole and on housing benefit or other housing difficulties. If anything like this happens again, I�d rather be in Sweden than here with fannies everywhere losing their s* and prepared to make millions suffer for years if it saves one life type rubbish. We have health advisors thinking they run the country and a conservative PM who should be in the bottom of the swamp with the other invertebrates. Only now has he stuck his head up and mentioned schools. We�ll see if he actually does anything to claw back a trickle of respect. What a shambles. Only the opposition want even more of it. Every year this country turns me off. I never thought I�d say it but it really does. I just don�t relate many of them. No balls, common sense, rationality or pride. And they think Brexiters are the embarrassing lot. Dear me. Edited by Rudi Hedman (09 Aug 2020 6.43pm) COYP**
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 09 Aug 20 6.19pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Where do you get these statistics?

The UK had the highest number of excess deaths in Europe compared to it's past 5 year average. Only C19 can account for them! Spain and Italy had higher peaks, but overall we have fared worst of all.

Sweden doesn't look too good either.

[Link]

It�s been in a few I think broadsheets.

What does it say about Sweden? Sweden are not in the worst de order countries and they had an even worse care home issue. They didn�t wreck their economy and put millions on furlough and eventually on the dole and on housing benefit or other housing difficulties. If anything like this happens again, I�d rather be in Sweden than here with fannies everywhere losing their s*** and prepared to make millions suffer for years if it saves one life type rubbish. We have health advisors thinking they run the country and a conservative PM who should be in the bottom of the swamp with the other invertebrates. Only now has he stuck his head up and mentioned schools. We�ll see if he actually does anything to claw back a trickle of respect. What a shambles. Only the opposition want even more of it. Every year this country turns me off. I never thought I�d say it but it really does. I just don�t relate many of them. No balls, common sense, rationality or pride. And they think Brexiters are the embarrassing lot. Dear me.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (09 Aug 2020 6.43pm)

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Aug 20 6.26pm
Originally posted by Sportyteacher Not all teachers are anti Tory and NEU has been horribly misrepresented in some part by Press when core concern is most definitely ONLY protecting the safety of both teachers and pupils. Oh and many teachers will be working through a sizeable chunk of their so-called 6 week holiday e.g. moving classrooms; changing displays; planning for new term etc. If you want to exercise your bile at public servants with obscenely long holidays then why not start with MPs? I said some, not all teachers. I don�t doubt how hard it is being a teacher. Some say it�s much harder than office work. But the fact remains the NEU is holding up society and damaging some children�s lives. When I see pictures of the female at the top of the NEU I�m not surprised. She looks an ugly bitter Cvnt who probably chose being a butch bitch lesbian as her only option. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 09 Aug 20 6.26pm

Originally posted by Sportyteacher

Not all teachers are anti Tory and NEU has been horribly misrepresented in some part by Press when core concern is most definitely ONLY protecting the safety of both teachers and pupils. Oh and many teachers will be working through a sizeable chunk of their so-called 6 week holiday e.g. moving classrooms; changing displays; planning for new term etc. If you want to exercise your bile at public servants with obscenely long holidays then why not start with MPs?

I said some, not all teachers. I don�t doubt how hard it is being a teacher. Some say it�s much harder than office work. But the fact remains the NEU is holding up society and damaging some children�s lives. When I see pictures of the female at the top of the NEU I�m not surprised. She looks an ugly bitter Cvnt who probably chose being a butch bitch lesbian as her only option.

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Aug 20 6.28pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I saw my doctor friend today she pointed out that our local hospitals are full of people who are still suffering the effects of the virus. Permanane damage has been done to them mainly their lungs and they may well die months after being infected or have a lifetime of continuing health issues. There are also doctors and nurses saying they�ve never seen it so quiet, and that�s for 5 months. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 09 Aug 20 6.28pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I saw my doctor friend today she pointed out that our local hospitals are full of people who are still suffering the effects of the virus.

Permanane damage has been done to them mainly their lungs and they may well die months after being infected or have a lifetime of continuing health issues.

There are also doctors and nurses saying they�ve never seen it so quiet, and that�s for 5 months.

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Aug 20 6.32pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I believe it has been shown that wearing a mask has no impact at all on the level of exygen that is consumed. It's purpose is to stop any large droplets expelled by coughs or sneezes reaching others. I have not heard anyone yet suggest that children ought to be wearing them, or that anyone should be when outside. If a face cloth is tightly fitted you can�t breathe properly. People are suffering from these. The heat may be making it worse. I agree on the coughing and sneezing. I won�t be going anywhere public with either this winter. Not worth it for various reasons. Just avoid like most people are doing with non essential shopping during this mask experiment. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 09 Aug 20 6.32pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If a face cloth is tightly fitted you can�t breathe properly. People are suffering from these. The heat may be making it worse. I agree on the coughing and sneezing. I won�t be going anywhere public with either this winter. Not worth it for various reasons. Just avoid like most people are doing with non essential shopping during this mask experiment.

COYP

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Lombardinho London 09 Aug 20 6.32pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I�m with you. I was joking the other lot think we�re evil or there�s something wrong with us. I too think you can become ill wearing a mask. I e seen on twitter there�s appointment and treatment evidence of relatives who�ve had serious health repercussions from wearing them already, plus they lower your immune system. No wonder the Japanese get on so well with them in their sterilised cities. Not for here. Masks can F off. Okay Rudi. I didn't realise you were joking. Probably because I've noticed further back in this thread that you seem to jump to conclusions very quickly. But hey! I'm delighted you're with me with regard to masks. I truly am. The amount of drivel I'm hearing from others trying to justify them is astonishing.
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Lombardinho

London 09 Aug 20 6.32pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Okay Rudi.
I didn't realise you were joking.
Probably because I've noticed further back in this thread that you seem to jump to conclusions very quickly.
But hey! I'm delighted you're with me with regard to masks. I truly am. The amount of drivel I'm hearing from others trying to justify them is astonishing.

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steeleye20 Online Croydon 09 Aug 20 6.49pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I saw my doctor friend today she pointed out that our local hospitals are full of people who are still suffering the effects of the virus. Permanane damage has been done to them mainly their lungs and they may well die months after being infected or have a lifetime of continuing health issues. Definitely and I am really amazed that some people can be back at work like Johnson and be seemingly better. A routine virus can knock you out for months, in my case over a year, and there is no treatment or sympathy. How these people have undamaged lungs I really don't know.
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steeleye20 Online

Croydon 09 Aug 20 6.49pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I saw my doctor friend today she pointed out that our local hospitals are full of people who are still suffering the effects of the virus.

Permanane damage has been done to them mainly their lungs and they may well die months after being infected or have a lifetime of continuing health issues.

Definitely and I am really amazed that some people can be back at work like Johnson and be seemingly better.

A routine virus can knock you out for months, in my case over a year, and there is no treatment or sympathy.

How these people have undamaged lungs I really don't know.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Aug 20 6.49pm
Imagine what the country would be like if everyone behaved like the NEU. It would be anything goes, only know food, water, fuel, services, police, healthcare, news. Nothing. They should have a think about that while they hold up the country from getting on with it. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 09 Aug 20 6.49pm

Imagine what the country would be like if everyone behaved like the NEU. It would be anything goes, only know food, water, fuel, services, police, healthcare, news. Nothing. They should have a think about that while they hold up the country from getting on with it.

COYP

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Lombardinho London 09 Aug 20 6.58pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly "Lies, damn lies, and statistics" A phrase from a former PM who manipulated unemployment figures to the extreme. (maggie) It comes down to a risk of death, or long-term impairment, or delayed treatment of (for example) pre-diagnosed cancer. it's a cvnt of a disease that can f vck you over for life. Do not dismiss the outcomes because you don't know anyone infected in your circle of friends. A lot of people who spread the disease do not even have symptoms Edited by Forest Hillbilly (09 Aug 2020 3.47pm) I don't suppose there's a fraction of a chance that you, yourself, may have been manipulated, is there Forest?
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Lombardinho

London 09 Aug 20 6.58pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

"Lies, damn lies, and statistics"

A phrase from a former PM who manipulated unemployment figures to the extreme. (maggie)

It comes down to a risk of death, or long-term impairment, or delayed treatment of (for example) pre-diagnosed cancer.

it's a cvnt of a disease that can f vck you over for life.

Do not dismiss the outcomes because you don't know anyone infected in your circle of friends.
A lot of people who spread the disease do not even have symptoms

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (09 Aug 2020 3.47pm)

I don't suppose there's a fraction of a chance that you, yourself, may have been manipulated, is there Forest?

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