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Things can drift to either extreme. You get the 'why bother, nature will do what it will do' attitude when the same people clearly be clambering for any medical treatment going in any other circumstance, and then on the other hand there's the people who think you should need to show documentation to have a pint.

Realistically the balance was already as good as it gets in terms of vaccination and the like (because there is no magic needle threading way to act where we 'win' and all is well, as that's not the nature of what we're dealing with).

Case in point, it's clearly a huge positive that so many people have been vaccinated because it has radically cushioned the blow of hospitalisations and somewhat reduced the spread, while allowing natural infections to chug along at a high yet perfectly manageable level. But it's also important to remember that getting covid - especially post vaccination - isn't a terrible thing. For most it essentially acts as a booster and may well be somewhat protective against future infection and variants, especially in combination (with vaccination) and in that order. Problems emerge where people are so keen to perpetually avoid Covid forever that they view it as a disaster if someone catches it. On the contrary if you're able to catch it, it's inevitable that you will. It's all about being sensible around it (getting vaccinated first, regular testing to avoid giving it to the especially vulnerable if you're around them etc). Once you've had it there is certainly a period of time where you're safer to be around than almost, so that has to be factored in too.

We've been ticking along at 40,000+ infections a day with relatively low hospitalisations in large part due to vaccination. Realistically it's probably closer to 100,000 cases. We're very likely to still get infected by new variants, but the key is surely how badly they impact us. There are studies showing that even getting a coronavirus common cold offers 'a degree' of protection against the most serious covid infections and so certainly I would hope that these 100,000 a day will go some way to cushioning the impact of future variants in terms of hospitalisations. We need to be flexible and sensible in our thinking and how we emerge out of this rather than dreaming that forcing everyone to get vaccinated before being served is going to magically change anything. It will change nothing in a big picture sense and life doesn't need to be that dystopian.

Edited by BlueJay (03 Dec 2021 12.39am)

The problem with the death rate data it is again misleading we know they lied about cause of death before vaccines so who is to say it was not the same after.

Medical professionals and places was paid extra to report pre vaccine almost all deaths as covid this ended when the vaccine was being fully rolled out the US was terrible for this.

The other misleading thing about the stats is look at the numbers of people who died at the start up this is when you could say it took out most of the weak with not many left so to then compare later on to people because they had a vaccine is again misleading.

The 99% survival rate is not made up this is for non vaccinated people for all groups if you separate groups this would change of course but no one can give the true number too many variables.

I would also like to point out the media etc has lied about everything regarding this you always hear its vaccinated in hospitals this is a lie the numbers of vaccinated far outweighs this speak to medical professionals all over the world they will back this up I am well informed what is going on in Asia/US and the vaccinated have been hit harder with more hospital admissions. (Some ICU staff even let this slip from a few countries in EU they had no unvaccinated people in ICU)

Ask this question how many people do you really know that has had this and ended up in hospital because of this not because they also have other medical conditions this is vaccinated or non?

Not many people do.

Things will never return to how they was this was the plan no reason anymore to continue with what is going on we could of returned to the ways of before but with people having options of going for boosters and wearing face coverings if they choose to.

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Not at all, that's reality. Maybe you like many others have lost touch with reality.

Pro China, EU & Palestine

I’ve just seen one bar chart showing hospitalisations going up in Gauteng, the South African province Johannesburg sits in. There isn’t enough context to conclude anything from it and you’d expect this with a version of covid with higher transmission. But we’ll see how high and fast those hospitalisations go.

Also in Gauteng the figures for vaccinated people in hospital is around 2%. The vaccination rate is 25% I think. What’s strange is the ‘Unknown’ whether vaccinated is 80%, but you expect most of those to be uncomfortable or embarrassed unvaccinated covid patients.

Yes, I wasn’t pleased when I had covid and after I’d finished isolating to keep hearing ‘’Sorry to hear that’’ and ‘’Hope you get better soon’’ before I felt dodgy. Then there were some after who assumed it was horrendous, which it wasn’t. Hi prefer to ask how was it? I spoke to someone who had severe sweats during his infection in March 2020 whereas I woke up a few times in a sweat soaked t-shirt so maybe that’s the difference the vaccines made for me, if after 5 months and a week there is much protection.

COYP

'Ends justifies the means' arguments....yeah that's gone well in history hasn't it.

In fact that's behind just about every fecked up thing.

Still it was amusing to read someone arguing that coercion can be positive.

This world is upside down.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Dec 2021 1.42pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)