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 Hrolf The Ganger  16 Feb 20 10.01pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Typical hard line leaver. Unable to accept that other opinions exist let alone show them any respect. It's no wonder that these divisions exist and that people like me go on fighting as a result. I'm just sick to death of you repeating yours for the hundredth time. We get it. You can't accept democracy and everyone else is wrong.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 20 10.55pm |
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Originally posted by cpfc_chap
Shame we didn't have the pr voting in place in 2015 as UKIP would've had large representative and Brexit would have been sorted I'd imagine also with this system the Brexit party would've had a large number of seats. You're really a brexiteer in disguise!! Regarding referendums, how would a countries and regions like scotland, N.Ireland and Barcelona vote for independence? I agree it was a shame it wasn't in place then because you are right, they would have had around 70 seats, almost all taken from the Tories. It would also have sorted Brexit out but not in the way you think. If they had the voice they deserved in Parliament the argument for a referendum would have gone up in smoke and the remain majority in Parliament would have seen them off. Exactly the same with the Brexit Party. They deserve to be represented but only at the level of their support. Scotland, N Ireland and the Catalan region ought not to be able to vote for independence. If it is to be done then it needs to be decided by the relevant Parliament. A consultative referendum of ALL the people might be sensible.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 20 11.01pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I'm just sick to death of you repeating yours for the hundredth time. We get it. You can't accept democracy and everyone else is wrong. The answer is entirely in your own hands. No-one is compelled to read what I have to say let alone respond to anything. You don't get it at all so yes you are wrong. I respect democracy. I don't believe in referendums as they are not part of our system. They are a fudge. A cop out by our elected representatives seeking to avoid taking the blame. When the system is broke then we need to change it. FPTP is really broken.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 20 11.05pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Or a mixture of the two. In this instance would it have been better for MPs to have made the decision to leave the EU on their own? Would that have been more democratic? It would have not just been more democratic. It would have just been democratic. They, of course, would not have done so as the MPs, who are more aware of all the complexities than the population at large, and less influenced by the media, were overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in the EU.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 20 11.11pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
Or apparently the Supreme Court could decide what was best for us all. The Supreme Court did no such thing. It offered no opinion on the merits, or otherwise, of anything being done by the government, including Brexit. All it did was rule that the PM deciding to prorogue in the way he did was unlawful as it restricted Parliament's duty to scrutinise. It only did that because it was asked to rule. It did not bring the action itself!
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Teddy Eagle  16 Feb 20 11.18pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It would have not just been more democratic. It would have just been democratic. They, of course, would not have done so as the MPs, who are more aware of all the complexities than the population at large, and less influenced by the media, were overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in the EU. So 326 MPs voting to leave would have more validity in democratic terms. Sorry but I don’t buy this since some of them don’t understand the complexities of putting on a hat.
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 17 Feb 20 8.57am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The Supreme Court did no such thing. It offered no opinion on the merits, or otherwise, of anything being done by the government, including Brexit. All it did was rule that the PM deciding to prorogue in the way he did was unlawful as it restricted Parliament's duty to scrutinise. It only did that because it was asked to rule. It did not bring the action itself! MPs are public servants - as such their only duty was to serve the will of the people. They failed miserably and got the boot at the next election. The Supreme Court and the Speaker revealed their true colours and have and will also pay the price.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Feb 20 9.36am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
So 326 MPs voting to leave would have more validity in democratic terms. Sorry but I don’t buy this since some of them don’t understand the complexities of putting on a hat. What your, or my, opinion is of any MP is irrelevant. When we elect them they then acquire the duty of their office. Don't like it? Then elect better MPs.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Feb 20 9.51am |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
MPs are public servants - as such their only duty was to serve the will of the people. They failed miserably and got the boot at the next election. The Supreme Court and the Speaker revealed their true colours and have and will also pay the price. I will doubtless get criticised for repetition but you are yet another who doesn't understand the way our democracy actually works. MP's are not public servants. They are our elected representatives, sent to Parliament to decide things for us. Our sole task is to choose who we want to represent us. After that they make their own decisions. They don't "serve the will of the people"! They determine what the people need and not what they want. If we don't like the results then we change them for others when we get the opportunity. The Supreme Court simply did it's job. It was asked to rule on a matter of law and it did. If it had not been asked it would not have been involved in any way. The Speaker also did his job. He protected the rights of Parliament and stood up for the back benchers. That he frustrated the government was obvious but that was their own fault as they attempted to over reach themselves and tried to sideline Parliament. It is Parliament is that is sovereign and not the government. No government, or PM, can do very much unless it can carry Parliament with it. Right now, with an 80 seat majority and a new bunch of compliant Tory MPs, that's easy but the fact remains. It's Parliament, and not the government, which is the ultimate authority.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 17 Feb 20 10.03am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I will doubtless get criticised for repetition but you are yet another who doesn't understand the way our democracy actually works. 1 MP's are not public servants. They are our elected representatives, sent to Parliament to decide things for us. Our sole task is to choose who we want to represent us. After that they make their own decisions. They don't "serve the will of the people"! They determine what the people need and not what they want. If we don't like the results then we change them for others when we get the opportunity. 2 The Speaker also did his job. He protected the rights of Parliament and stood up for the back benchers. That he frustrated the government was obvious but that was their own fault as they attempted to over reach themselves and tried to sideline Parliament. It is Parliament is that is sovereign and not the government. No government, or PM, can do very much unless it can carry Parliament with it. Right now, with an 80 seat majority and a new bunch of compliant Tory MPs, that's easy but the fact remains. It's Parliament, and not the government, which is the ultimate authority. 1. Correct you will be. I have heard several distinguished MPs and constitutional experts define the role of an MP in far narrower terms that you put. MPs are expected to keep to any public statements they make during the election and to the manifesto they publicly endorse. Ken Clarke made it clear he would not vote for Brexit and I have no problem with that the voters knew what they were getting. Many other MPs simply lied to the voters especially around the 2017 GE when the issues around Brexit were well known at that stage so the argument that they changed their mind due to new information post GE was hogwash. Other than that your are correct MPs are free to vote on matters that are not central to the platform they were elected on or issues that arise post GE. You may disagree but as we an unwritten constitution the role is open to interpretation. However I think the bloodbath of the 2019 GE showed what the public thought of these liars they either stood down or were trounced I can't think of one MP who betrayed the voters that is still in Parliament.
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| Teddy Eagle 17 Feb 20 10.20am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
What your, or my, opinion is of any MP is irrelevant. When we elect them they then acquire the duty of their office. Don't like it? Then elect better MPs. This is the problem though. There are too many politicians being elected for reasons other than than their political expertise. For example those two parliamentary titans in north London, one of whom can’t put her shoes on the right feet and the other who thought Marie Antoinette won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1903. These are the intellectual powerhouses who should have made the decision for us.
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| Teddy Eagle 17 Feb 20 10.26am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
This is the problem though. There are too many politicians being elected for reasons other than than their political expertise. For example those two parliamentary titans in north London, one of whom can’t put her shoes on the right feet and the other who thought Marie Antoinette won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1903. These are the intellectual powerhouses who should have made the decision for us. If they joined forces, and with their spelling skills, they could call themselves Lobotomy.
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