Not a personal criticism, but the above is what Charlton fans were saying about Alan Curbishley.

Wigan played really attacking football a few years back.

Palace are not going to 'the next level' without some serious wonga spent. The Premiership reality is sinking-in with Palace fans.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (03 Jul 2020 4.41pm)

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

Two examples across two decades... it’s not ‘the reality’ - there are tens of teams who have come up and stayed up playing far far better than we do now. We’ve bloody done it ourselves on numerous occasions, so why are we making out it’s impossible or unrealistic?

Wigan also won an FA cup, by the way, and stayed up for 8 years with a vastly inferior budget and playing squad to what we do now - not a bad example at all.

It’s telling none of those defending Hodgson can tackle the specific criticisms, just peddle this nonsense narrative that the only alternative is relegation.

We’re all fans, but this theme that anyone criticising Hodgson after a season this bad is ‘entitled’ or doesn’t know what you they’re talking about is pathetic - I’d suggest its those who are happy with what we’re being served up with the 10th highest wage bill in the division that are delusional.

We are heading towards a relegation unless something changes - the numbers we’ve served up this year are completely unsustainable. Any basic level of analysis would show you that.

Good post. If we set up the way we do every game , at home v the top 6 and away against the top 10, but actually had ago at the attacking the rest of the games , this thread wouldn’t exist.

Give me an example of one team who on a limited budget went from solid but uninspiring to entertaining, free flowing football; and stayed up.

I’ll put my 2 cents in. I used to buy into the thinking that the Championship was better/ more enjoyable. More wins, cheaper games and more academy players. But I can’t agree with it anymore having thought about it.

Our exposure is so much better. I’ve got family and friends abroad who watch the games. We’re on MOTD and are talked about more in general football conversation. I can pretty much watch any game I want through various means.

Another thing I thought about is that I remember more games in our current era than when we were in the championship. Wins against the big clubs mean a lot for bragging rights and there are usually a number of them each season. We arguably have a better shot in cup competitions as the team is of a better standard (not that we ever do actually do better)

The infrastructure in the ground is much better. We are a much more professional club than before we came up. Getting the academy upgraded will help loads and hopefully the new stand will eventually get built. It won’t happen if we are in the league below.

The players are better too and we don’t consistently sell them. In the championship we had maybe 2 or 3 decent players, whereas now I enjoy waiting to see which players are going to play in international teams and competitions. I’m also not worried during the transfer window that any decent player will get snapped up by teams in the league above.

I’m not in the Hodgson our camp, but I can’t help but wonder if we should be future proofing. We should identify the sort of the manager we want, post Hodgson, and if the opportunity arises, we should go for it. If Dyche is the manager we want and he become available then we should go for him. I thought we should have gone for Brendan Rodgers before Leicester got him. The advantage of having Hodgson is that we have time. We can really look at how we want the club move forwards and keep our ears open for a manager who maybe the right fit to become available. I see Roy very much as a caretaker manager at the moment as I can’t see him staying more than one season after this one.

It's Red and Blue that unites us

No, we are only going to have this conversation when we play boring shiite football at home against average teams. Funnily enough that covers the last 3 years.