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March 29 2024 5.41am

Are we better than when we were promoted?

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View Canterbury Palace's Profile Canterbury Palace Flag Whitstable 06 Jul 20 12.57am Send a Private Message to Canterbury Palace Add Canterbury Palace as a friend

Originally posted by Nubes

I really don’t understand the constant pessimistic view towards the upcoming season, regarding relegation.

We have been in the league for a number of seasons and what I think people want to actually happen is the club get relegated just for them to say ‘I told you so’

People actually wishing the Championship on us, no thanks, been there done that, appreciate that we are in the Prem and not scratching around playing teams that don’t provide any real appetite to leave your home for.

Can’t people see, Big Sam, hugely experienced, Pulis was hugely experienced, Roy Hugely experienced, not getting relegated!!!!

Yes the football can be brain numbing my boring, but look at our points in relation to Norwich, Bournemouth and villa and for all the Angst on here we are not worrying about relegation.

I just think a lot of people are not happy unless they are moaning and hoping we get relegated do they can points score.

We are a better team now - as the players we have now are established top level performers in comparison to the players who came up from the championship!


Because to all intents and purposes we have had our summer break so form-wise we are effectively in next season. After beating Bournemouth who are useless, we have lost the next three games 8-0 on aggregrate and been outplayed in all of them to the extent where, against Liverpool, we were the first team to fail to have a touch in the opposition box during a Premier League game in 15 years or something ridiculous like that. It is concerning.


As for the conspiracy theory about fans secretly wanting Palace to be relegated so they can say they were right and because they enjoy moaning, complete nonsense in my opinion. I come on here to moan because A) it's a football forum and thus designed for moaning about football and B) My wife supports Millwall and when I complain to her about Palace she thinks it's funny.

 


We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

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View kennybrowns leftfoot's Profile kennybrowns leftfoot Flag Reigate 06 Jul 20 1.54am Send a Private Message to kennybrowns leftfoot Add kennybrowns leftfoot as a friend

Originally posted by Canterbury Palace


Because to all intents and purposes we have had our summer break so form-wise we are effectively in next season. After beating Bournemouth who are useless, we have lost the next three games 8-0 on aggregrate and been outplayed in all of them to the extent where, against Liverpool, we were the first team to fail to have a touch in the opposition box during a Premier League game in 15 years or something ridiculous like that. It is concerning.


As for the conspiracy theory about fans secretly wanting Palace to be relegated so they can say they were right and because they enjoy moaning, complete nonsense in my opinion. I come on here to moan because A) it's a football forum and thus designed for moaning about football and B) My wife supports Millwall and when I complain to her about Palace she thinks it's funny.

I totally agree with you Canterbury and thank you for your original post to.. Very informative and must have taken some research and effort so fair play..

Like you I'm of the opinion that surely no fan secretly wants us relegated??.. However in this day an age who knows how bizarre some people think!!

It's interesting recent threads/comments etc.. The majority of my mates are Chelsea fans and when I've raised concerns about RH and how we play they can't get there heads round it and the stock answer is 'better the devil you know' and Hodgson does a job for us... Obviously I can't get them to come and watch what us Palace fans watch week in week out!!

Are we better than our 1st season??.. Individual player wise without a doubt but I like you have serious concerns at where our club is heading and the football (or lack of) we are playing.

How much more can a 72 year old offer us??.. His total disregard of any player (bar wilf) who has some flair to his game is very concerning for me.

 


Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 06 Jul 20 2.07am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

The wage bill comparative to other clubs is a key indicator. When compared to Wolves and Sheffield United we compare poorly, similarly Leicester if those numbers are correct.

For me this shows poor decision making and negotiating transfers.

We seem to knee jerk in getting players in as short term fixes, Sakho being a prime example.

Meyer's salary is high but depends how much we paid as extras when we signed him on a " free " etc.

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 06 Jul 20 2.09am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Which of our flair players are being disregarded?

Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot

I totally agree with you Canterbury and thank you for your original post to.. Very informative and must have taken some research and effort so fair play..

Like you I'm of the opinion that surely no fan secretly wants us relegated??.. However in this day an age who knows how bizarre some people think!!

It's interesting recent threads/comments etc.. The majority of my mates are Chelsea fans and when I've raised concerns about RH and how we play they can't get there heads round it and the stock answer is 'better the devil you know' and Hodgson does a job for us... Obviously I can't get them to come and watch what us Palace fans watch week in week out!!

Are we better than our 1st season??.. Individual player wise without a doubt but I like you have serious concerns at where our club is heading and the football (or lack of) we are playing.

How much more can a 72 year old offer us??.. His total disregard of any player (bar wilf) who has some flair to his game is very concerning for me.

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 06 Jul 20 7.04am Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

No, I don't think we are "better". Every season the same relegation worries before we accumulate enough points to be safe, all with a higher wage bill. Amazingly in this space of time we've gone through six managers, which suggests there is not a solid foundation upon which to build, and frustratingly only one player of note has made it through the youth team and he was sold! We have, however managed to buy a number of middle of the road mercenaries, some on exorbitant wage levels. Add in the dire turgid unentertaining football espoused by the current manager which makes wandering round IKEA for 90 minutes seem preferable, and I think it is reasonable to say we are actually "worse".

Edited by southnorwoodhill (06 Jul 2020 7.06am)

Edited by southnorwoodhill (06 Jul 2020 8.02am)

 

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 06 Jul 20 9.00am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by Canterbury Palace


In what sense would you say we are though? I think our playing style is the worst its been since we came up and I can't really see any metric where we have greatly progressed.

In terms of the cash injection, as I mentioned we are comfortably outspending clubs who are significantly outperforming us when it comes to wages so it's not like we're not investing anything, I just don't think we're investing it particularly well.

That's a fair point about the academy, I hadn't considered it like that. I suppose we will see our true intent with the post-Roy appointment, whether it is someone youth orientated or not.

Well when we got promoted, we had Ian Holloway as our manager. Just stop and think about that one for a moment ! Add in the players that we were able to attract to the club at that time - a multitude of mediocrity. Since then we have signed a far higher calibre of player.So yes, we are better than when we were promoted.

People will always find something to moan about. But I have been supporting Palace since 1967 and I am celebrating the fact that we have retained our Premier League status for 8 consecutive years. For a club of our size I see that as a real achievement.

It's very easy to point fingers at the way the club is being run and of course mistakes have been made, but I think overall Steve Parish has done a great job.

There are some challenges ahead in terms of the short term managerial situation and a squad in need of refreshing, but I believe these issues have been recognised and will be addressed.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 06 Jul 20 9.40am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

The real nub of the problem is the style of football and dearth of goals.

If we were more entertaining, scored quite a few more goals, and the scenario was that we won some games quite comfortably but conversely were defeated by 3 or more goals on occasions, I would suggest that supporters would readily accept an 11th or 12th place finish which we have achieved under Hodgson.

Edited by Willo (06 Jul 2020 9.41am)

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 06 Jul 20 9.42am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

Well when we got promoted, we had Ian Holloway as our manager. Just stop and think about that one for a moment ! Add in the players that we were able to attract to the club at that time - a multitude of mediocrity. Since then we have signed a far higher calibre of player.So yes, we are better than when we were promoted.

People will always find something to moan about. But I have been supporting Palace since 1967 and I am celebrating the fact that we have retained our Premier League status for 8 consecutive years. For a club of our size I see that as a real achievement.

It's very easy to point fingers at the way the club is being run and of course mistakes have been made, but I think overall Steve Parish has done a great job.

There are some challenges ahead in terms of the short term managerial situation and a squad in need of refreshing, but I believe these issues have been recognised and will be addressed.

With you to the last line NEILLO on squad refreshment. To have allowed it to have reached this point is mismanagement. You want a fistful of academy players with genuine potential plying their trade on loan or in development and the club attracting players of the right vintage and quality who will not just use us as a negotiating ploy to get into West Ham.

I suppose we will see how the club proposes to address this from the end of this month.

 

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jeeagles Flag 06 Jul 20 11.08am

I'm not sure like for like wages or vaule of the squad is a easy comparison as wages and transfer fee inflation is always huge.

Comparing the team we went up with to the current side:

Speroni, Ward, Moxey, Gabbidon, Delaney, Jedinak, KG, Garvin, Williams, Zaha, Wilbriham

to;

Guaita, Ward, PVA, Sakho, Cahill, Riedewald, Milivojevic, McArthur, Ayew, Zaha, Benteke.

I'd say we've got better quality in most positions and better strenght in depth.

If the starting 11 in the side we were promited with were fit all season (swapping Bolasie, Moritz, and Murray). We might have got automatic promotion. We just had no strenght in depth at all. It was a fairly high risk stratergy which worked over the season.

Guaita is better than an ageing Speroni.

PVA, Sakho and Cahill are better than Moxey, Gabbidon and Delaney. Dann, Tompkins, Kelly, and Schlupp are far better the Ramags, Parr, and Jaz Richards.

We only really had O'Keefe as a back up holding midfielder, now we have Kayoute and McCarthy.

Mayer, is possibly an upgrade on Jonny Williams, Garvin and Moritz. Who can really tell though we never use them.

Would have Bolasie back (in his prime) compaired to Townsend/Ayew/Schlup.

Murray is better than Benteke, with Phillips as a back up and Willibraham as a last resort.

It looks as though we've invested too much in centre backs and holding midfielders and not given ourselves many attacking options. Was adding Cahill, Kayoute, McCarthy to the squad a good idea when we were desperately weak in other areas?

 

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View Booted Eagle's Profile Booted Eagle Flag Bristol 06 Jul 20 11.29am Send a Private Message to Booted Eagle Add Booted Eagle as a friend

Difficult comparison as quite rightly fans expectations have gone up. However we did remarkably well to stay up that first season, particularly after Ollie's sweet shop raid in the transfer market at the
beginning and being just promoted. As we started this season without this type of difficulty and knowing where our issues on the field were, we really should of done better attacking wise this seaason. Whilst the transfer system is a complicated beast to manipulate I find it hard to feel that this season in 2 windows we couldn't find a player meeting our monetary requirements and who the present manager was willing to play ? Feel something has to change there in the future because if the defense starts to creek we will be up to our heads in it. Commentator mentioned on Saturday that we had scored only 9 goals in the 1st half all season, 2 were recently at Bournemouth !?!

Edited by Booted Eagle (06 Jul 2020 11.34am)

Edited by Booted Eagle (06 Jul 2020 11.36am)

 


“ [T]here are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know. ”
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View Canterbury Palace's Profile Canterbury Palace Flag Whitstable 06 Jul 20 12.06pm Send a Private Message to Canterbury Palace Add Canterbury Palace as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

Well when we got promoted, we had Ian Holloway as our manager. Just stop and think about that one for a moment ! Add in the players that we were able to attract to the club at that time - a multitude of mediocrity. Since then we have signed a far higher calibre of player.So yes, we are better than when we were promoted.

People will always find something to moan about. But I have been supporting Palace since 1967 and I am celebrating the fact that we have retained our Premier League status for 8 consecutive years. For a club of our size I see that as a real achievement.

It's very easy to point fingers at the way the club is being run and of course mistakes have been made, but I think overall Steve Parish has done a great job.

There are some challenges ahead in terms of the short term managerial situation and a squad in need of refreshing, but I believe these issues have been recognised and will be addressed.


We're in agreement that the playing squad are significantly better now, player for player, reflecting the higher wages being paid. But with that in mind do you not think that progress should be reflected in some way, whether in our league position or how competitive we are on a match to match basis?

CPFC2010 and Steve Parish are the best things to have happened to this club, it's beyond dispute. This is the most successful period in the history of the club and I'm hugely grateful to them for saving us.

However, saying that shouldn't come with the caveat of abandoning all ambition for future progress. The bottom line is that we are spending more and achieving the same as we were 8 years ago whereas clubs like Burnley, Newcastle, Wolves and Sheffield United are all achieving more than us despite having been in the Championship more recently and on more modest budgets.

In the Championship there was always the chance that we might win promotion. With the Premier League sneaking into the Europa League or winning a cup probably represents the ceiling of what we can achieve. We had a genuine chance to achieve the former this season and I suppose I'm just disappointed that, barring a miracle, we've blown it and the the opportunity will probably go to one of a number of clubs that I don't view as being particularly bigger than us.

 


We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

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View Canterbury Palace's Profile Canterbury Palace Flag Whitstable 06 Jul 20 12.10pm Send a Private Message to Canterbury Palace Add Canterbury Palace as a friend

Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot

I totally agree with you Canterbury and thank you for your original post to.. Very informative and must have taken some research and effort so fair play..

Like you I'm of the opinion that surely no fan secretly wants us relegated??.. However in this day an age who knows how bizarre some people think!!

It's interesting recent threads/comments etc.. The majority of my mates are Chelsea fans and when I've raised concerns about RH and how we play they can't get there heads round it and the stock answer is 'better the devil you know' and Hodgson does a job for us... Obviously I can't get them to come and watch what us Palace fans watch week in week out!!

Are we better than our 1st season??.. Individual player wise without a doubt but I like you have serious concerns at where our club is heading and the football (or lack of) we are playing.

How much more can a 72 year old offer us??.. His total disregard of any player (bar wilf) who has some flair to his game is very concerning for me.


Ah thank you. It's concerning and, as much as I like and admire Roy, I feel like three seasons of steadying the ship is enough and now we should have bigger ambitions if we're not going to be left behind.

The fact that we have the oldest squad in the division is very significant to me and an extra year on some of those aging legs will make a huge difference. We desperately need some fresh faces next season.

 


We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

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