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EddieMac 08 Jul 20 9.46am
Originally posted by robdave2k Completely agree RH is all about players and a system. However. Those players are older and it’s an argument against giving Hodgson money to spend. Otherwise his successor is going to have a team of ageing well paid journeymen and no money to change our style. At the end of the day we are a mid to lower end Premier League team, but our focus should be on scouting, acadamy and longer term planning. RH is never going to look to the youth unless forced and he isn’t a a manger to develop them. AWB was a fluke. RH is a functional manager. Give him 100 million to spend, we will still end up with a team of Schlupps, Ayews, Kouyates etc. That has a place, but the game is evolving and RH with the greatest will isn’t. Every club (and country)he’s ever been at is the same. I suspect RH has benefitted from no crowds, as the receptions at full time wouldn’t have been pleasant...... I don’t disagree with anything you said but Roy was not brought in to develop younger players he was brought in to keep us safe for a few years while the club sorted itself out in the background. It is up to Parish and Dougie to get those younger players in and be ready for the next manager to develop. Roy has no interest in signing 19/20 year olds as he knows he will be gone in a year or so and more than likely this will be his last year in football management. The same goes with developing or moving with the times, he was not brought in to develop or move with the times and why would he change everything he knows. He is 74 not 34. This is just something we are going to have to put up with for another year so a lot of may as well get used to it. Roy will be gone in 12 months and so will most of that squad, the next few transfer windows are critical and it will not be Roy making the signings.
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EddieMac

08 Jul 20 9.46am

Originally posted by robdave2k

Completely agree RH is all about players and a system. However.

Those players are older and it’s an argument against giving Hodgson money to spend. Otherwise his successor is going to have a team of ageing well paid journeymen and no money to change our style.

At the end of the day we are a mid to lower end Premier League team, but our focus should be on scouting, acadamy and longer term
planning. RH is never going to look to the youth unless forced and he isn’t a a manger to develop them. AWB was a fluke.

RH is a functional manager. Give him 100 million to spend, we will still end up with a team of Schlupps, Ayews, Kouyates etc. That has a place, but the game is evolving and RH with the greatest will isn’t. Every club (and country)he’s ever been at is the same.

I suspect RH has benefitted from no crowds, as the receptions at full time wouldn’t have been pleasant......

I don’t disagree with anything you said but Roy was not brought in to develop younger players he was brought in to keep us safe for a few years while the club sorted itself out in the background. It is up to Parish and Dougie to get those younger players in and be ready for the next manager to develop. Roy has no interest in signing 19/20 year olds as he knows he will be gone in a year or so and more than likely this will be his last year in football management.

The same goes with developing or moving with the times, he was not brought in to develop or move with the times and why would he change everything he knows. He is 74 not 34. This is just something we are going to have to put up with for another year so a lot of may as well get used to it. Roy will be gone in 12 months and so will most of that squad, the next few transfer windows are critical and it will not be Roy making the signings.

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Ian-VI Vicenza 08 Jul 20 9.56am
Originally posted by EddieMac Roy will be gone in 12 months and so will most of that squad, the next few transfer windows are critical and it will not be Roy making the signings. And I fear that when this happens, because your prediction is very likely, a lot of people that are now complaining will be very sorry of the outcome... Edited by Ian-VI (08 Jul 2020 9.57am) The best footie management game: [Link]
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Ian-VI

Vicenza 08 Jul 20 9.56am

Originally posted by EddieMac
Roy will be gone in 12 months and so will most of that squad, the next few transfer windows are critical and it will not be Roy making the signings.

And I fear that when this happens, because your prediction is very likely, a lot of people that are now complaining will be very sorry of the outcome...

Edited by Ian-VI (08 Jul 2020 9.57am)

The best footie management game: [Link]

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Eaglecoops CR3 08 Jul 20 10.00am
Originally posted by Painter Meyer suffers from the same affliction that happens to some Palace players, the less they play the better they are in the eyes of some fans and cant live up to the expectation. By the time Camarasa left, he was the answer to all our problems, despite most fans never seen him play for us. As sweeping generalisations go that is about as good as it gets. Let’s just try and slag off as many fellow fans who might have a different view to you in one sentence oh sage one.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 08 Jul 20 10.00am

Originally posted by Painter

Meyer suffers from the same affliction that happens to some Palace players, the less they play the better they are in the eyes of some fans and cant live up to the expectation.
By the time Camarasa left, he was the answer to all our problems, despite most fans never seen him play for us.

As sweeping generalisations go that is about as good as it gets. Let’s just try and slag off as many fellow fans who might have a different view to you in one sentence oh sage one.

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 08 Jul 20 10.11am
Originally posted by robdave2k Completely agree RH is all about players and a system. However. Those players are older and it’s an argument against giving Hodgson money to spend. Otherwise his successor is going to have a team of ageing well paid journeymen and no money to change our style. At the end of the day we are a mid to lower end Premier League team, but our focus should be on scouting, acadamy and longer term planning. RH is never going to look to the youth unless forced and he isn’t a a manger to develop them. AWB was a fluke. RH is a functional manager. Give him 100 million to spend, we will still end up with a team of Schlupps, Ayews, Kouyates etc. That has a place, but the game is evolving and RH with the greatest will isn’t. Every club (and country)he’s ever been at is the same. I suspect RH has benefitted from no crowds, as the receptions at full time wouldn’t have been pleasant...... Well the good news is that the club IS focusing on the future with the big investment in the Academy and gaining Cat 1 status. Scouting is something that never stops but success depends on how effective your network is and how it is managed. The constant criticism of Hodgson not giving youth a chance is something of a red herring in my opinion. The fact is, AWB aside, we haven't had a glut of young players pressing for a first team place. Hodgson will be looking at addressing the overall age of the squad this summer I am sure. It's an accepted fact that needs to be done. I don't think it will be too radical more of a gradual rebuild. My concern is that when you are only effectively contracting a manager for a season at a time, it surely hinders medium term planning. Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 08 Jul 20 10.11am

Originally posted by robdave2k

Completely agree RH is all about players and a system. However.

Those players are older and it’s an argument against giving Hodgson money to spend. Otherwise his successor is going to have a team of ageing well paid journeymen and no money to change our style.

I suspect RH has benefitted from no crowds, as the receptions at full time wouldn’t have been pleasant......

Well the good news is that the club IS focusing on the future with the big investment in the Academy and gaining Cat 1 status. Scouting is something that never stops but success depends on how effective your network is and how it is managed.

The constant criticism of Hodgson not giving youth a chance is something of a red herring in my opinion. The fact is, AWB aside, we haven't had a glut of young players pressing for a first team place.

Hodgson will be looking at addressing the overall age of the squad this summer I am sure. It's an accepted fact that needs to be done. I don't think it will be too radical more of a gradual rebuild. My concern is that when you are only effectively contracting a manager for a season at a time, it surely hinders medium term planning.

Old, Ungifted and White

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Ian-VI Vicenza 08 Jul 20 10.27am
Hi Neillo, agree with you. What baffles me is that for a lot of fans having the academy means that those players should be played in the 1st team, often when losing 3-0 so they would learn nothing in the process, against players too much strong for them. Academy means, growing young players, loaning them out to Div 1 teams at 18-19, then loaning them to Championship players at 20 and then, if they show to be good enough, play in the Premier for the club. Which club in the world has the Academy players that go straight in the 1st team without any experience anywhere? Every league position is £2M, what is the sense of playing kids because we're safe? Who's going to pay for the £10M we could lose for playing kids? The best footie management game: [Link]
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Ian-VI

Vicenza 08 Jul 20 10.27am

Hi Neillo,
agree with you.
What baffles me is that for a lot of fans having the academy means that those players should be played in the 1st team, often when losing 3-0 so they would learn nothing in the process, against players too much strong for them.
Academy means, growing young players, loaning them out to Div 1 teams at 18-19, then loaning them to Championship players at 20 and then, if they show to be good enough, play in the Premier for the club.
Which club in the world has the Academy players that go straight in the 1st team without any experience anywhere?
Every league position is £2M, what is the sense of playing kids because we're safe? Who's going to pay for the £10M we could lose for playing kids?

The best footie management game: [Link]

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doombear Too far from Selhurst Park 08 Jul 20 10.28am
Originally posted by EddieMac I don’t disagree with anything you said but Roy was not brought in to develop younger players he was brought in to keep us safe for a few years while the club sorted itself out in the background. It is up to Parish and Dougie to get those younger players in and be ready for the next manager to develop. Roy has no interest in signing 19/20 year olds as he knows he will be gone in a year or so and more than likely this will be his last year in football management. The same goes with developing or moving with the times, he was not brought in to develop or move with the times and why would he change everything he knows. He is 74 not 34. This is just something we are going to have to put up with for another year so a lot of may as well get used to it. Roy will be gone in 12 months and so will most of that squad, the next few transfer windows are critical and it will not be Roy making the signings. Agree. Roy has done the job he was hired to do which was to keep us in the EPL. Whilst he may not be one for blooding young players, he is clearly not averse to young players coming in for future development (think Banks) and but for a medical issue we would have had Fergusson as well. As for playing our own youngsters, as I've said on other threads, when your U23 team are joint bottom of their league (comprising mainly Championship and League 1 clubs) it's unlikely there will be talent there that is ready to be exposed to the Prem. We've had glimpses of two possibilities in Pierrick and Mitchell. Obviously, last night wasn't a game in which to give them an outing. With the contracts of most of the first team due to end next year, the next 12 months will, to say teh elast be interesting.
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doombear

Too far from Selhurst Park 08 Jul 20 10.28am

Originally posted by EddieMac

Agree. Roy has done the job he was hired to do which was to keep us in the EPL. Whilst he may not be one for blooding young players, he is clearly not averse to young players coming in for future development (think Banks) and but for a medical issue we would have had Fergusson as well.

As for playing our own youngsters, as I've said on other threads, when your U23 team are joint bottom of their league (comprising mainly Championship and League 1 clubs) it's unlikely there will be talent there that is ready to be exposed to the Prem. We've had glimpses of two possibilities in Pierrick and Mitchell. Obviously, last night wasn't a game in which to give them an outing.

With the contracts of most of the first team due to end next year, the next 12 months will, to say teh elast be interesting.

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Badger11 Beckenham 08 Jul 20 10.31am
Just watched the highlights on Palace TV. Commentator suggesting that Chelsea should have stopped play for the first goal when Cahill went down. Clutching at straws for that it wasn't a life threatening injury they were entitled to play on. We did much better and were really unlucky not to equalize at the end. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 08 Jul 20 10.31am

Just watched the highlights on Palace TV. Commentator suggesting that Chelsea should have stopped play for the first goal when Cahill went down. Clutching at straws for that it wasn't a life threatening injury they were entitled to play on.

We did much better and were really unlucky not to equalize at the end.

One more point

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 08 Jul 20 10.37am
Originally posted by Badger11 Just watched the highlights on Palace TV. Commentator suggesting that Chelsea should have stopped play for the first goal when Cahill went down. Clutching at straws for that it wasn't a life threatening injury they were entitled to play on. We did much better and were really unlucky not to equalize at the end. There was no obligation for Chelsea to stop the play. We would have been peeved if our team never played on in similar circumstances.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 08 Jul 20 10.37am

Originally posted by Badger11

There was no obligation for Chelsea to stop the play.
We would have been peeved if our team never played on in similar circumstances.

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Sportyteacher London 08 Jul 20 10.56am
Originally posted by Willo I broadly agree with this viewpoint. I would add that Schlupp provides physicality and being left-footed provides a balance down the left. He has also chipped in with some goals. You mentioned our ageing squad.I believe that in this post-lockdown period with a succession of games in a short period of time, we have to recognise the demands of those in the twilight of their careers. Have to say that we are definitely missing Schlupp and Tomkins and will be likewise missing Cahill for the way that they can operate Defence and support Midfield and beyond.
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Sportyteacher

London 08 Jul 20 10.56am

Originally posted by Willo

I broadly agree with this viewpoint.

I would add that Schlupp provides physicality and being left-footed provides a balance down the left. He has also chipped in with some goals.

You mentioned our ageing squad.I believe that in this post-lockdown period with a succession of games in a short period of time, we have to recognise the demands of those in the twilight of their careers.

Have to say that we are definitely missing Schlupp and Tomkins and will be likewise missing Cahill for the way that they can operate Defence and support Midfield and beyond.

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Booted Eagle Bristol 08 Jul 20 11.10am
Originally posted by Ian-VI Hi Neillo, agree with you. What baffles me is that for a lot of fans having the academy means that those players should be played in the 1st team, often when losing 3-0 so they would learn nothing in the process, against players too much strong for them. Academy means, growing young players, loaning them out to Div 1 teams at 18-19, then loaning them to Championship players at 20 and then, if they show to be good enough, play in the Premier for the club. Which club in the world has the Academy players that go straight in the 1st team without any experience anywhere? Every league position is £2M, what is the sense of playing kids because we're safe? Who's going to pay for the £10M we could lose for playing kids? Totally right about the system. Unfortunately for us we have never really seen this happen, particularly in the Championship, which shows the problem with the academy. Hopefully this will start to be addressed with it's upgrade. Somebody mentioned that Richard Shaw wasn't happy about the lack of loans. As none of our youngsters are in that league and playing regularly it gives a good indication of where we are at the moment. “ [T]here are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know. ” —United States Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld
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Booted Eagle

Bristol 08 Jul 20 11.10am

Originally posted by Ian-VI

Totally right about the system. Unfortunately for us we have never really seen this happen, particularly in the Championship, which shows the problem with the academy. Hopefully this will start to be addressed with it's upgrade. Somebody mentioned that Richard Shaw wasn't happy about the lack of loans. As none of our youngsters are in that league and playing regularly it gives a good indication of where we are at the moment.

“ [T]here are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know. ”
—United States Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld

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Tickled pink Cornwall 08 Jul 20 11.32am
Mr Ward had a really bad game which was a shame considering how consistent he normally is.
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Tickled pink

Cornwall 08 Jul 20 11.32am

Mr Ward had a really bad game which was a shame considering how consistent he normally is.

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EddieMac 08 Jul 20 11.55am
Originally posted by Tickled pink Mr Ward had a really bad game which was a shame considering how consistent he normally is. His poor performance also coincided with Mr Zaha playing in front of him. Ward needs constant help back there or he is in trouble against pace.
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EddieMac

08 Jul 20 11.55am

Originally posted by Tickled pink

Mr Ward had a really bad game which was a shame considering how consistent he normally is.

His poor performance also coincided with Mr Zaha playing in front of him. Ward needs constant help back there or he is in trouble against pace.

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