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April 25 2024 10.02pm

Covid vaccine

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 18 Feb 21 3.29pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Tony Bliar said it would be best. There are advantages and disadvantages to either strategy.

 


COYP

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BlueJay Flag UK 18 Feb 21 5.37pm

Originally posted by Uphill

Why does it always come to this on HOL whatever subject is discussed?

Argument, counter argument, insults and no resolution. What an utter waste of time and resources.

I wish to ask a question if permitted.

My second dose of the Pfizer is due on March 4th which is 12 weeks since the first. Much medical opinion (WHO, BMA and Pfizer themselves) is that there is no guarantee of immunity after 6 weeks.

The government's heralded triumph of first dose vaccinations looks impressive but belies a possible unintended consequence of possible infection incurred between 6 and 12 weeks.

We are unasked guinea pigs and any vaccine 'certificate' or 'passport' subsequently issued in the UK is likely to be rejected by other countries (certainly by Israel) as worthless as the stipulated
3 week gap has not been followed.

I shall be very annoyed if I turn up at an airport and get turned away as not having proof of vaccination !

For what it's worth some other countries are now looking to extend the period between doses [Link] due to the data coming in regarding the success of the first dose. As you rightly say there are unknowns in diverging from the dose regimen of the study (where time was of the essence!).

In some quarters there have been concerns that delaying the second dose could increase the likelihood of resistant strains [Link]

Emerging data, at least with the AstraZeneca vaccine, points towards a longer period between doses increasing efficacy [Link] . Of course this is only one study though, and who knows if it's applicable to other vaccines - Pfizer etc.

(Interestingly, in the Oxford study they initially thought that half dose - full dose made the vaccine more effective, before later factoring in that there was a longer period between dosing in that sub group [Link] )

The second Pfizer dose increases antibody levels very significantly accordingly to their data and real world studies [Link] . While one dose appears to be very effective against covid-19, it would appear that the South African variant for instance may make it 2/3 less effective [Link] . With that in mind, and the fact that they currently have little idea of what level of antibodies are actually required to fend off the virus, I can certainly appreciate concerns in having to wait. It's feasible that it may end up being a good call (due to these new strains not currently being as widespread, plus 'possibly' increased efficacy with a longer wait). It's a tricky balancing act no doubt. Lots of unknowns, with a government somewhat winging it in the decisions that they make on our behalf.

Edited by BlueJay (18 Feb 2021 5.40pm)

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 18 Feb 21 6.11pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

For what it's worth some other countries are now looking to extend the period between doses [Link] due to the data coming in regarding the success of the first dose. As you rightly say there are unknowns in diverging from the dose regimen of the study (where time was of the essence!).

In some quarters there have been concerns that delaying the second dose could increase the likelihood of resistant strains [Link]

Emerging data, at least with the AstraZeneca vaccine, points towards a longer period between doses increasing efficacy [Link] . Of course this is only one study though, and who knows if it's applicable to other vaccines - Pfizer etc.

(Interestingly, in the Oxford study they initially thought that half dose - full dose made the vaccine more effective, before later factoring in that there was a longer period between dosing in that sub group [Link] )

The second Pfizer dose increases antibody levels very significantly accordingly to their data and real world studies [Link] . While one dose appears to be very effective against covid-19, it would appear that the South African variant for instance may make it 2/3 less effective [Link] . With that in mind, and the fact that they currently have little idea of what level of antibodies are actually required to fend off the virus, I can certainly appreciate concerns in having to wait. It's feasible that it may end up being a good call (due to these new strains not currently being as widespread, plus 'possibly' increased efficacy with a longer wait). It's a tricky balancing act no doubt. Lots of unknowns, with a government somewhat winging it in the decisions that they make on our behalf.

Edited by BlueJay (18 Feb 2021 5.40pm)

It looks like my wait will only be for 11 weeks. I also understand a longer wait than 3 weeks is likely to be beneficial but it's untested. I also suspect 12 weeks may be at the upper limit for the gap before there is a loss in efficacy but nobody knows yet. It's why you do the Phase 4 research.

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 18 Feb 21 6.30pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Tony Bliar said it would be best. There are advantages and disadvantages to either strategy.

That’s alright then. He is so credible

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 18 Feb 21 6.32pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

It looks like my wait will only be for 11 weeks. I also understand a longer wait than 3 weeks is likely to be beneficial but it's untested. I also suspect 12 weeks may be at the upper limit for the gap before there is a loss in efficacy but nobody knows yet. It's why you do the Phase 4 research.

My dear wife and I are booked in for our 1st jabs next week and our 2nd jabs 11 weeks later.

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 18 Feb 21 7.32pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

It looks like my wait will only be for 11 weeks. I also understand a longer wait than 3 weeks is likely to be beneficial but it's untested. I also suspect 12 weeks may be at the upper limit for the gap before there is a loss in efficacy but nobody knows yet. It's why you do the Phase 4 research.

Yes, I can see why as the weeks tick by some would start to be concerned about the various unknowns at play. Especially those without a second appointment lined up so far. Hopefully they haven't over extended themselves with this first dose push across groups to the point where there are even delays even beyond 12 weeks.

As you rightly say, there are knowledge gaps and a degree of flying blind. Fingers crossed that through fortune as much as anything else the roll out ends up providing as much protection as is possible, putting us in a much better position going forward.

 

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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 18 Feb 21 7.35pm Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

My dear wife and I are booked in for our 1st jabs next week and our 2nd jabs 11 weeks later.

My 2nd jab is scheduled for next tuesday..!

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 18 Feb 21 7.37pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

My dear wife and I are booked in for our 1st jabs next week and our 2nd jabs 11 weeks later.

Got my first jab tomorrow I just turned 60 so I am delighted.

 


One more point

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BlueJay Flag UK 18 Feb 21 7.43pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Got my first jab tomorrow I just turned 60 so I am delighted.

Congrats Badger and co. Will no doubt provide welcome peace of mind. Good to have something fighting your corner against this dreaded virus.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 20 Feb 21 8.32am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Good news from Pfizer hopefully this will help the roll out.

[Link]

 


One more point

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BlueJay Flag UK 20 Feb 21 11.10pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Good news from Pfizer hopefully this will help the roll out.

[Link]

Great news. And more good news

Covid vaccine: All UK adults to be offered jab by 31 July - PM

[Link]

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 21 Feb 21 8.58am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Just read that israel are going to vaccinate 100k Palestinians who work in israel. We could see some unexpected benefits from this sad moment in time.

 

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