Origins of life
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 acolcpfc  Littlehampton, West Sussex 07 Jan 21 6.03pm |
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Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle
Mate you are really clever! After me, you are probably the smartest guy in here Lol, I’m not clever mate, just a topic I’m really interested in. Thanks though!!!
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 Hrolf The Ganger 07 Jan 21 6.29pm |
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Originally posted by acolcpfc
Great question and I think the biggest of life’s big questions. I believe God created the universe. A few reasons I think this: 1) I personally find it harder to believe ‘everything’ ie the universe and all matter, came from nothing rather than by something. Why is there something rather than nothing? 2) Where do the laws of physics come from? Why is it we have these precise ones rather than some other set? How did these laws take featureless and non living gases and rocks to life, consciousness and intelligence? 3) The systems and f the universe and the human body and how they all work together. I can’t see how blind forces can accomplish the complexity of these. 4) Excuse the science and the big numbers behind this one and I did copy and paste the numbers below. The fine tuning of the universe in order for life to exist is so precise it literally is beyond comprehension. A few examples are the following, and to give you an example how big these numbers are, 10^123 is followed by 123 zeros, and then followed by another 123 zeros. This number is so big it couldn’t be written on paper as there would not be enough atoms to write them on. If any of these were outside of these parameters, life would not exist. Gravitational constant: 1 part in 10^34 5) 6) DNA is information and gives directions. What do we know on earth that gives directions and information that doesn’t come from intelligence? As a cumulative case, I find these convincing to me. Close thread. What exactly is your idea of 'God'? This is probably the most unconvincing argument I have ever heard. God is a blank filler for all the stuff we don't understand. Nothing more.
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| acolcpfc Littlehampton, West Sussex 07 Jan 21 6.49pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Close thread. What exactly is your idea of 'God'? This is probably the most unconvincing argument I have ever heard. God is a blank filler for all the stuff we don't understand. Nothing more. My idea of God is: Creator What points did I give in the other post that are inconsistent or wrong? What is a better explanation- a space less, timeless, immaterial, intelligent being created the universe, or nothing created the universe? I obviously do not know the answer, I just arrive at my personal conclusion from weighing up the evidence in front of me. I appreciate people interpret data and arrive at different conclusions. Also, the laws of nature break down at the Big Bang, so even the atheists starting point is supernatural.
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| Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 07 Jan 21 7.21pm |
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Originally posted by acolcpfc
My idea of God is: Creator What points did I give in the other post that are inconsistent or wrong? What is a better explanation- a space less, timeless, immaterial, intelligent being created the universe, or nothing created the universe? I obviously do not know the answer, I just arrive at my personal conclusion from weighing up the evidence in front of me. I appreciate people interpret data and arrive at different conclusions. Also, the laws of nature break down at the Big Bang, so even the atheists starting point is supernatural. Yes, but where did this "God" come frome. How did it manifest to do this stuff?
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cryrst Online  The garden of England 07 Jan 21 7.31pm |
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How do people like brian cox actually sleep, I mean knowing theres an answer but not knowing it!
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| acolcpfc Littlehampton, West Sussex 07 Jan 21 7.32pm |
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Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64
Yes, but where did this "God" come frome. How did it manifest to do this stuff? I believe God has always existed and was not created. Something, one way or another, has had to always exist otherwise their would be an infinite chain of events going back and never ending, which is absurd. It makes sense to me,that there is an uncaused causer. Scientists once believed the universe was eternal, but all of the evidence for the Big Bang changed that. The universe had a beginning, but something has always existed.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Jan 21 7.33pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Close thread. What exactly is your idea of 'God'? This is probably the most unconvincing argument I have ever heard. God is a blank filler for all the stuff we don't understand. Nothing more. I’ve read ‘Creation: The Origin of Life / The Future of Life Creation’ by Adam Rutherford a good few years ago. [Link]
Anyway, from memory the book is a bit sciency but uses layman’s terms and simplifies some of the theories. Primordial soup, cell theory and DNA are all explained. Reading this book it would be pretty difficult for anyone to argue there is a God, but I’m sure they’d try. As I expect all the reviews say, it’s an excellent book.
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| Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 07 Jan 21 7.43pm |
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Originally posted by acolcpfc
I believe God has always existed and was not created. Something, one way or another, has had to always exist otherwise their would be an infinite chain of events going back and never ending, which is absurd. It makes sense to me,that there is an uncaused causer. Scientists once believed the universe was eternal, but all of the evidence for the Big Bang changed that. The universe had a beginning, but something has always existed. Again I like your thinking. But "God" is what you choose to believe. There is no arguement to disprove "God", ergo, that's the easy option. The 'ultimate question' is a known unknown and will probably remain that way for the entire lifespan of this planet and solar system.
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| acolcpfc Littlehampton, West Sussex 07 Jan 21 8.08pm |
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Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64
Again I like your thinking. But "God" is what you choose to believe. There is no arguement to disprove "God", ergo, that's the easy option. The 'ultimate question' is a known unknown and will probably remain that way for the entire lifespan of this planet and solar system. Totally get that and agree you can’t disprove God, but (even though we won’t ever know what it is in this life) there is a truth behind the universe. I think you can bring it down to 3 possibilities: 1) The universe is necessary The universe is not necessary. Given the literally impossible probability of the initial conditions of the Big Bang and all of the other constants that make life necessary, chance is not rational. Which leaves the universe being created. Which I think is the most reasonable one because of the points I listed above and that something exists, that didn’t have to exist. There could have easily been, no being at all. But granted, we don’t know and probably will never know. I just try my best to come to a worldview from what I make of everything.
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| Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 07 Jan 21 8.24pm |
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Originally posted by acolcpfc
Totally get that and agree you can’t disprove God, but (even though we won’t ever know what it is in this life) there is a truth behind the universe. I think you can bring it down to 3 possibilities: 1) The universe is necessary The universe is not necessary. Given the literally impossible probability of the initial conditions of the Big Bang and all of the other constants that make life necessary, chance is not rational. Which leaves the universe being created. Which I think is the most reasonable one because of the points I listed above and that something exists, that didn’t have to exist. There could have easily been, no being at all. But granted, we don’t know and probably will never know. I just try my best to come to a worldview from what I make of everything. 1) How do you know that the universe is not necessary? 2) The "Big Bang" has as much probability as "God" 3) The creation of the universe may be neither of the above. You seem to apply reason for an outcome. That is purely physics. All physics does is explain outcomes of known actions. There are several 'Random' theories. Have a look at some. You seem interested. Luck is also involved in a lot of evolutionary processes, which again is random. God is not necessarily the only answer.
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| Tom-the-eagle Croydon 07 Jan 21 9.38pm |
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Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64
1) How do you know that the universe is not necessary? 2) The "Big Bang" has as much probability as "God" 3) The creation of the universe may be neither of the above. You seem to apply reason for an outcome. That is purely physics. All physics does is explain outcomes of known actions. There are several 'Random' theories. Have a look at some. You seem interested. Luck is also involved in a lot of evolutionary processes, which again is random. God is not necessarily the only answer.
"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit |
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| ex hibitionist Hastings 07 Jan 21 9.48pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Close thread. What exactly is your idea of 'God'? This is probably the most unconvincing argument I have ever heard. God is a blank filler for all the stuff we don't understand. Nothing more. Haven't you just described perfectly the Hindu concept of 'Brahmin' - the unknowable to which all invented deities are merely a bridge, hence the essential agnosticism of Hinduism? I think it's the same for Buddhism but someone can please correct me.
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