But you are against capitalism so why would you care?

Once again, if we were in the EU we would be giving our gas away and you wouldn't have had your beloved vaccines first because you'd have had to share both.

I can only say that once again, the majority of people who voted against the EU did so for either the assertion of political independence or against the immigration policies of that political cartel......it wasn't a vote about, 'line go up'.....which is a joke anyway as all these politicians, foreign or domestic, have done nothing but destroy the financial future.

And your beloved left would have borrowed even more and all the rich investment, which you seem to think are just going to stay and hand over your pension, would have fecked off.

What gets me is that these ideas have been tried multiple times and never ended in anything other than greater misery for the most vulnerable....most recently in France....All that ended up giving them is Macron because all the money fled....Maybe that's what you really want.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Oct 2022 3.39pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

That was always my interpretation or assumption.

I don't ever quite get the 'Look at the trade, travel etc. implications of Brexit' argument. It's pretty much a solo conversation.

I was of the belief that most Brexit voters had done so as a resounding rejection of the open door immigration policy and amalgamation with the likes of nowheresville in Eastern Europe etc and the belief that Britain will always be able to handle herself and need not any potential negative consequences for relinquishing self governance and determination.

Whilst perhaps not all are as well research or invested in the 'Globalism' hypothesis as yourself Stirling I think there was a semi, if not subconscious acknowledgement and complete rejection of this. Hasn't stopped politicians still doing politician things mind you but at least it provided some demonstrable resistance.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

My point about brexit is more practical.

Where are we now, it is plainly detrimental made us poorer and damaged growth.

If Rashi Sunook is a realist unlike the other tories we have had, he has to repair our EU trading and political relationship.

Going back in is not yet feasible but rejoining the single market and customs union is hopefully possible, but a whole new attitude from the UK is the key.

I see only failure from Tories and Labour, Starmer is wrong, the tories we know, now locked into 2019 is wrong imo.

The Truss disaster is primarily brexit in action for really the first time proper we see reality, the rest has been a general downhill slide since leaving that is working its way through.

There seems to be a conspiracy of silence over brexit, everybody shies away from any mention, and the conclusion I take is that the UK wants to brush it away under the carpet, as though it never happened.

The reason is obvious, nobody wants to own a failure.

I am not interested in leaving or remaining, but resolving.

How I see it Merkel fecked the remainers when she refused to give Cameron anything on freedom of movement.

The remainers thought they could still win....so did most of the pundits.

They gambled.

They lost.

We move on.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Oct 2022 4.11pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Norway is an example of a country in the Single Mkt but not a member of the EU; I think I am right in saying that other EEA countries might have a similar model.

That kind of Norway option was open to the UK but dismissed in the red lines Theresa May set out very early in the process much to the amazement of the EU negotiators. Even with that, she couldn't get a softer withdrawal agreement through her own party which had been overtaken by the Brexit fundamentalists.

I have long believed that the economic affects of all this would come home to bite us and that certainly looks like it is happening; the FT analysis posted earlier is a very good one and they are known for their accurate reporting. Indeed, one Boris Johnson, used to copy their material as a lazy Times/Telegraph journalist when he was in Brussels.

I feel certain Sunak and Hunt are well aware of the realities of the situation so it will be really interesting to see if there is a softening in the UK approach; if I was betting on it, I think there will be given the major economic and political problems they are having to deal with which in many ways can all be traced back to 2016.

I am with you Stirling.
Remainers - we voted and we left.
Any benefits were always going to take 5 years plus to come to fruition and that was before we had a pandemic and a war to cope with.
Therefore, it will now take longer - jeez!
Your heads are seriously buried in a lot of sand and therefore you cannot see or hear the reality - WE LEFT AND WE ARE NOT GOING BACK!