You have entirely ignored the point I was making.

I’ll make it again

Polluting the environment at the levels we are doing and will continue to do for many decades, whether that be carbon emissions, forever chemicals, plastics and so on, plus doing our best to deforest the entire planet and therefore eliminate most of the species and biodiversity on earth is not a good thing.

Climate change is a small component of the above and in some ways not even the biggest issue. Annoys me that the whole thing gets boiled down to is or isn’t it happening. Almost irrelevant when you add up all the problematic behaviour such as just some of the massive issues above.

If you think polluting the planet to such a continuing extreme is in some way a necessity or a good thing, I’d love to hear an argument for why. And there are alternatives to growth and prosperity that don’t involve mass pollution and destruction, so saying it’s the only way to progress is complete nonsense. Hence why China is so desperate to pivot away from fossil fuel dependency and is investing so heavily in renewables.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (22 Jul 2021 12.02am)

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

And there we have it

Atmospheric CO2 is definitely hitting higher peaks according to widely accepted measuring data. I’m not interested in the ‘is it natural or man made’ dross anymore. It’s distracting. Just stop polluting, period. Doesn’t matter whether it’s us or not re CO2 - stop doing it. The alternatives are more efficient anyway.

And as for the why do we have to do to overnight

Yes it’s financial because 30 years of activism has finally worked. Hedge funds and big money is pouring out of corporates not taking the future seriously. And btw that’s not just climate or the environment, it’s ethics, equality culture etc as well. Environment is just one component. Consumers are also demanding it now. The tipping point has been reached, probably in part thanks to Covid making people realise doing stupid s*** could in fact probably affect them.

Plus if Exxon etc had actually bothered to take their own assumptions and research seriously all those years ago we might have been able to transition a little slower and smoother.

But why bother when there’s people to exploit, the environment to ruin and money to be made. The global economy is so deeply entwined with oil that even a slow transition at this stage would be extremely painful. Just rip the band aid off - anything else is kicking the can down the road

Interestingly big oil will be one of the main players in the transition - they have the money, power and consumer reach to make the difference, along with all the other polluting super brands (Unilever, coke, big fashion etc)

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Read this - it shows the difference between populism and democracy - in fact you can see hoiw actually they are very similar.
You love what Biden stands for which is anything but Democracy - his lot stand for arrogant belief that they are right and bugger the people.
Trump at least wanted what was best for the people!
If this explanation is right then give me populism every day of the week!

Populism describes a type of political behaviour where a line is drawn separating the common masses (the people) against a corrupt elite (the establishment) and calling for a correction that will fix the gap. The word “populism” is often used in a pejorative sense meant to insult and seen as a form of demagogy. Populism is a common behaviour in democratic societies mostly and might be either a conservative movement or a liberal movement.

On the other hand, Democracy is usually the environment where populist behaviour generates. Because democracy is a form of government that attempts to seek the consent of all citizens equally, it becomes prone to populist upheavals when citizens detect any hint of concentrated power that bypasses accepted democratic channels. From this viewpoint then, populism is probably a good thing in that it shows serious political commitment to the values of a democratic society. Even though the small group accused of elitism may have acted innocently enough they will be held accountable for crimes against the state’s form of government and should never get close to challenging democratic channels except in the most transparent previews under their right to submit a grievance.

Wisbech - I guess that i will always disagree with your views.
Of course Trump is up his own backside and doing what suits him but I firmly believe he worked the majority and not the minority of elite left wing liberals who promise everything and deliver little - ie Biden and Co and the likes of Hilary Clinton.
Is Trump a nice man - almost certainly not - is Joe Biden - almost certainly not - is Hilary Clinton - absolutely not!.
The definition came from Quora from memory - it was a google search.
Also - please don't be so condescending by calling me silly - I am in my 60's and run a good business - I may hold different political views to you but I am anything but silly!

I called the statement silly. I am in my late 70s and have been capable of making silly statements at times throughout my life. I too have run several businesses, but making silly statements doesn't make either of us silly. It just means we are imperfect human beings.

There are many definitions on Quora. It's whose you selected that matters. Another I found there includes this:-

"As a practice, populism is the attempt by a leader or leadership, in a democratic society, to bypass those institutional channels (included the established political elite) with the support of the disaffected populace.

This is a very limited definition of populism according to which it can be described as a strategy for the exercise of power, or even a mere strategy for the sole attainment of power."

That is closer to my own understanding.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.