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 Stirlingsays  13 Nov 21 3.06am |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
Kipling's family considered themselves to be Anglo-Indian and much of his work detailed the complexities of identity. Being that he had English parents and left the country as a small child to go to boarding school in the UK I think it's fair to assume he had varying influences and experiences. He compared his return to India as an experience where his 'English years fell away, nor ever, I think, came back in full strength' comparing his experience to that of Indian born boys. 'My people' . Considering there was understandably a fairly strict separation between British and Indian in their society, it was really quite remarkable how much he pushed outside of that and become close to those in Indian society. In fact he highlighted this enforced ignorance as others lives as "morally worthless.. narrow-minded, prejudiced, and, above all, ignorant of Indian society." The mans identity, like most hold complexities to it. As for most of 'the squad', as stated you can't go back to where you've never been. Just because a persons politics don't align with yours it doesn't mean that they have no allegiance to their country or that genes convey some kind of bonus points above someone born somewhere. Edited by BlueJay (12 Nov 2021 11.49pm) We don't really agree on these identity/genes issues but I take your point that there can be complex situations and that genes aren't everything on the question...culture does matter. You think the global village can work while I think it's the road to perdition. Having said that I'm talking on the large scale and not about individuals.....good people exist in all groups, my observations are more concerned with how human nature works on the larger scales and how the political responds to that.
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| Stirlingsays 13 Nov 21 3.14am |
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I'm obviously giving an opinion as they can't speak for themselves but I think with Kipling's family that the attachment to India was a cultural thing rather than a dual allegiance...a fondness for India was common during that period amongst the monied classes...Kipling was obviously English and I don't think that this was the kind of thing that would be even considered a question back then. Anyway we don't really agree on these identity/genes issues but I take your point that there can be complex situations and that genes aren't everything on the question...culture does matter. You think the global village can work while I think it's the road to perdition. Having said that I'm talking on the large scale and not about individuals.....good people exist in all groups, my observations are more concerned with how human nature works on the larger scales and how the political responds to that. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Nov 2021 3.14am)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Nov 21 9.27am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Apparently when it's from the left....suddenly context matters. And it seems I'm a liar for stating what Biden actually said in place of someone saying what he thought he meant to say. Clown world. What Biden might have meant to say wasn't my point anyway. The point was on the pure double standards. Oh and what's Trump got to do with it? In fact it just highlights the double standards even more.....imagine the hatred he'd get for saying that..... I won't include Bluejay in that observation....as I don't think him mentioning Trump was said with a deflection intention. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Nov 2021 11.27pm) No, the lie wasn't about Biden. The lie, or contrary opinion, which you regard as a lie in others, is where the hypocrisy exists. The right glory in a slip of the tongue by Biden but excuse the outrageous standards of Trump, which continue even today. That's where the double standards, and hypocrisy, exist. A slip of the tongue is rightly ignored by the responsible press, and genuinely worrying behaviour highlighted. Trump's many stumbles were often ignored as just Trump being Trump. There were just too many to constantly be reported. By all means discuss the bigger picture of fitness for office, but suggesting that the hypocrisy is from "leftist media" in dealing with Biden is untrue. It's all from the right.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 13 Nov 21 10.33am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Trump was right, in my view, as allegiance/genetics matters more than birthplace......To give the often made example, Kipling was born and raised in India yet no one seriously regards him as Indian, least of all himself. Trump was hated by the left precisely because of this kind of thing....which is why Biden's gaffe is so delicious. I suspect that they have him so drugged to the nines that the guy's system is overloaded.....They are reducing his life expectancy....In his mental state he should not be sitting at the top of the decision pyramid. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Nov 2021 11.16pm) Agreed. My best mate is the epitome of an English gentleman, loves cricket supports England at football and don't ever criticise the Queen in his presence. Yet he was born in Nigeria and lived there during his childhood his, allegiance however is to the UK. Fair play I say. I don't get footballers who suddenly discover their heritage e.g. Vinny Jones he's English, wait no Irish oh hang on he's Welsh. If these people get banged up abroad who do they yell for (it wont be the ambassador from their heritage country) all of sudden their British. If you feel an affinity for another country that's fine then give up your British passport I don't mean you have to go home but just live here under the heritage passport. But no they want it both ways, my allegiance means more than a passport of convenience.
One more point |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Nov 21 10.58am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Trump was right, in my view, as allegiance/genetics matters more than birthplace......To give the often made example, Kipling was born and raised in India yet no one seriously regards him as Indian, least of all himself. Trump was hated by the left precisely because of this kind of thing....which is why Biden's gaffe is so delicious. I suspect that they have him so drugged to the nines that the guy's system is overloaded.....They are reducing his life expectancy....In his mental state he should not be sitting at the top of the decision pyramid. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Nov 2021 11.16pm) That is another untruth. Trump is not so much hated as despised, and not just by the left. Many ordinary, decent minded people of every political persuasion despise Trump. Not though for his gaffes, which are often quite amusing in their degree of incompetence. He is despised for his autocratic, self-serving and intemperate nature. He is despised for his dishonesty and lack of respect for the law and democracy. He is despised for embracing and inspiring the worst elements of society. Trump wasn't despised because he made a claim based on that:- "allegiance/genetics matters more than birthplace". That is a perfectly reasonable opinion and held by many.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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 georgenorman 13 Nov 21 5.39pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That is another untruth. Trump is not so much hated as despised, and not just by the left. Many ordinary, decent minded people of every political persuasion despise Trump. Not though for his gaffes, which are often quite amusing in their degree of incompetence. He is despised for his autocratic, self-serving and intemperate nature. He is despised for his dishonesty and lack of respect for the law and democracy. He is despised for embracing and inspiring the worst elements of society. Trump wasn't despised because he made a claim based on that:- "allegiance/genetics matters more than birthplace". That is a perfectly reasonable opinion and held by many. Opinion is divided, Wisbech despises him, but 63 million people in 2016 and 74 million in 2020, didn't.
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| Stirlingsays 13 Nov 21 5.47pm |
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Biden has approved a $650m sale of missiles to Saudi Arabia, months after vowing to end arms sales to the Gulf kingdom and labelling it a 'pariah' during his election campaign.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 13 Nov 21 5.51pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That is another untruth. Trump is not so much hated as despised, and not just by the left. Many ordinary, decent minded people of every political persuasion despise Trump. Not though for his gaffes, which are often quite amusing in their degree of incompetence. He is despised for his autocratic, self-serving and intemperate nature. He is despised for his dishonesty and lack of respect for the law and democracy. He is despised for embracing and inspiring the worst elements of society. Trump wasn't despised because he made a claim based on that:- "allegiance/genetics matters more than birthplace". That is a perfectly reasonable opinion and held by many. It's not something I've stated as a fact, it's an opinion. Personally I think the evidence proves that it's a reasonable one but if you want to argue for a significant difference between hating and despising someone then fair enough.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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croydon proud  Any european country i fancy! 13 Nov 21 5.57pm |
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Biden sent a letter to the Irish rugby team, wishing them good luck today, his cousin was former international Rob Kearney, anyway, it worked, with a thumping 29-20 win, making that 3 out of the last 5 against the mighty all blacks, nice one mr president !
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| Stirlingsays 13 Nov 21 5.59pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Agreed. My best mate is the epitome of an English gentleman, loves cricket supports England at football and don't ever criticise the Queen in his presence. Yet he was born in Nigeria and lived there during his childhood his, allegiance however is to the UK. Fair play I say. I don't get footballers who suddenly discover their heritage e.g. Vinny Jones he's English, wait no Irish oh hang on he's Welsh. If these people get banged up abroad who do they yell for (it wont be the ambassador from their heritage country) all of sudden their British. If you feel an affinity for another country that's fine then give up your British passport I don't mean you have to go home but just live here under the heritage passport. But no they want it both ways, my allegiance means more than a passport of convenience.
A succinct post. We all know there can be complex situations but I, and I think many others entirely agree with you. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Nov 2021 6.06pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 13 Nov 21 6.05pm |
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Originally posted by croydon proud
Biden sent a letter to the Irish rugby team, wishing them good luck today, his cousin was former international Rob Kearney, anyway, it worked, with a thumping 29-20 win, making that 3 out of the last 5 against the mighty all blacks, nice one mr president ! I heard that the Biden family is actually more English than Irish...Maybe that's wrong.....But I wouldn't be surprised if my family turned out to be more Irish than his! Then again, the differences within these northern European islands are so entirely conceptual as to be a bit silly really. Turn up to a game, sing different anthems and then go home and live precisely the same lives living the same cultures.....if the accents weren't different you'd never be able to tell.
Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Nov 2021 6.06pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 13 Nov 21 6.15pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I heard that the Biden family is actually more English than Irish...Maybe that's wrong.....But I wouldn't be surprised if my family turned out to be more Irish than his! Then again, the differences within these northern European islands are so entirely conceptual as to be a bit silly really. Turn up to a game, sing different anthems and then go home and live precisely the same lives living the same cultures.....if the accents weren't different you'd never be able to tell.
Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Nov 2021 6.06pm)
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