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Badger11 Beckenham 05 Dec 22 7.51am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The FBI are politically blind. They serve the USA, not a party, or a President. Don't that fact get in the way of your prejudice though! Perceived means exactly what it says. They had warnings of another dump of misinformation from sources, which were non-specific. So they made the social media companies aware of this and asked they take special care with anything that could not be independently authenticated. Keeping the USA safe is their duty. That's part of it. My description of Hunter Biden is indeed how I view him, as yours is just yours. I am sure his father had a broad idea of what his son was involved in, but almost certainly not the detail. He has quite a lot of other things to be dealing with. I know what my daughters do, but not who their contacts are, where they based etc. And I am nothing like so busy as Joe. The MSM didn't "bury" the story at all. They wouldn't run it whilst it remained unverified. Like you I think there is a great deal more to come out, but unlike you I think it will tell us much more about the role that Bannon and Giuliana played along with the guy who first made the copies of the hard drive. Evidence is beginning to seep out that these were tampered with. The only authentic copy is with the FBI, and they aren't saying anything. Yet. But apparently they had no problems running many stories about Trump which have either been proved to be fake or "unverified" as you would say. I am still waiting to see the blackmail video of Trump and the Russian prostitutes, that claim had to be true because it came from an ex MI6 agent. Of course he was paid by Hilary Clinton and her pals but that has nothing to do with it he said it so it must be true. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 05 Dec 22 7.51am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The FBI are politically blind. They serve the USA, not a party, or a President. Don't that fact get in the way of your prejudice though!

Perceived means exactly what it says. They had warnings of another dump of misinformation from sources, which were non-specific. So they made the social media companies aware of this and asked they take special care with anything that could not be independently authenticated. Keeping the USA safe is their duty. That's part of it.

My description of Hunter Biden is indeed how I view him, as yours is just yours. I am sure his father had a broad idea of what his son was involved in, but almost certainly not the detail. He has quite a lot of other things to be dealing with. I know what my daughters do, but not who their contacts are, where they based etc. And I am nothing like so busy as Joe.

The MSM didn't "bury" the story at all. They wouldn't run it whilst it remained unverified. Like you I think there is a great deal more to come out, but unlike you I think it will tell us much more about the role that Bannon and Giuliana played along with the guy who first made the copies of the hard drive. Evidence is beginning to seep out that these were tampered with. The only authentic copy is with the FBI, and they aren't saying anything. Yet.

But apparently they had no problems running many stories about Trump which have either been proved to be fake or "unverified" as you would say.

I am still waiting to see the blackmail video of Trump and the Russian prostitutes, that claim had to be true because it came from an ex MI6 agent. Of course he was paid by Hilary Clinton and her pals but that has nothing to do with it he said it so it must be true.

One more point

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footythoughts Beckenham 05 Dec 22 8.31am
Originally posted by Matov There is a positive to it in that it is so blatant that nobody with even a modicum of political nous can deny the double standards. It helps make the divide stronger and more permanent. Edited by Matov (04 Dec 2022 1.06pm) It's worth adding that Musk explicitly acknowledges that both Trump's White House and the Biden team had both requested posts be removed which were honoured yet declined to give any details of the former. That would appear to be an important piece of information too and not this amazing act of transparency its painted as. It's still as political as everything else that has taken place. Edited by footythoughts (05 Dec 2022 8.36am)
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footythoughts

Beckenham 05 Dec 22 8.31am

Originally posted by Matov

There is a positive to it in that it is so blatant that nobody with even a modicum of political nous can deny the double standards.

It helps make the divide stronger and more permanent.

Edited by Matov (04 Dec 2022 1.06pm)

It's worth adding that Musk explicitly acknowledges that both Trump's White House and the Biden team had both requested posts be removed which were honoured yet declined to give any details of the former. That would appear to be an important piece of information too and not this amazing act of transparency its painted as. It's still as political as everything else that has taken place.

Edited by footythoughts (05 Dec 2022 8.36am)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Dec 22 8.31am
Originally posted by Badger11 But apparently they had no problems running many stories about Trump which have either been proved to be fake or "unverified" as you would say. I am still waiting to see the blackmail video of Trump and the Russian prostitutes, that claim had to be true because it came from an ex MI6 agent. Of course he was paid by Hilary Clinton and her pals but that has nothing to do with it he said it so it must be true. Do we know how many stories the MSM haven't run on Trump because they cannot be confirmed and they fear being sued? The Steele report exists. That isn't in doubt. It reports rumours, which Steele expresses no certainty about but suggests that he has a high degree of confidence that many are true, given his experience and contacts. I heard him repeat that confidence only last week, when asked pretty much the same question that you do. He doesn't know if a video tape of the alleged event still exists, but appears sure that it did at one time. The origins of the Steele report lie in a commission given to Steele by Republican "never-Trumper" conservatives. It was then taken up by the DNC when Trump became the GOP candidate as opposition research. Steele is a convincing witness. He doesn't appear to have any political motives at all. Hearing the way he had to disappear into hiding, with his family, in the middle of the night when he was told the story was being published by BuzzFeed was chilling. You don't do that unless you have a good reason to. The US intelligence agencies had, and still have, their own reports on Trump which largely confirm the Steele report. They know, but knowing and proving are different beasts. Trump understands the value of plausible deniability as well as any mob boss. He keeps things at arms length and lets the next level take the rap, and then pardons them. Obama was briefed. I expect Biden has been too. That Russia wanted Trump in the WH and helped him get there is beyond any doubt. How much Trump actively participated with them, and what part of that can be proved is all that remains in doubt. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 05 Dec 22 8.31am

Originally posted by Badger11

But apparently they had no problems running many stories about Trump which have either been proved to be fake or "unverified" as you would say.

Do we know how many stories the MSM haven't run on Trump because they cannot be confirmed and they fear being sued? The Steele report exists. That isn't in doubt. It reports rumours, which Steele expresses no certainty about but suggests that he has a high degree of confidence that many are true, given his experience and contacts. I heard him repeat that confidence only last week, when asked pretty much the same question that you do. He doesn't know if a video tape of the alleged event still exists, but appears sure that it did at one time.

The origins of the Steele report lie in a commission given to Steele by Republican "never-Trumper" conservatives. It was then taken up by the DNC when Trump became the GOP candidate as opposition research.

Steele is a convincing witness. He doesn't appear to have any political motives at all. Hearing the way he had to disappear into hiding, with his family, in the middle of the night when he was told the story was being published by BuzzFeed was chilling. You don't do that unless you have a good reason to.

The US intelligence agencies had, and still have, their own reports on Trump which largely confirm the Steele report. They know, but knowing and proving are different beasts. Trump understands the value of plausible deniability as well as any mob boss. He keeps things at arms length and lets the next level take the rap, and then pardons them. Obama was briefed. I expect Biden has been too.

That Russia wanted Trump in the WH and helped him get there is beyond any doubt. How much Trump actively participated with them, and what part of that can be proved is all that remains in doubt.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 05 Dec 22 9.39am
I'm not going to comment on WE's fantasies here. However, I will make the observation that social media companies have far too much power and are used to interfere in elections. Of course they are.....whatever isn't regulated will be abused by the powerful. It doesn't matter who it is, Democrat or Republican, they will do whatever they can get away with to have power. Those who deny this are just playing political tribalism. I think Musk is a good guy. I also think Jack Dorsey is a good guy who got railroaded by activists. Both of them are more to the left of me but I recognise honesty and good intent when I see it. What Musk is trying to do is pull America back towards its first amendment, which has been significantly abused by social media. I believe the forces ranged against him are powerful and malignant. I'm secular, so it's rare for me to talk in terms of evil, but I believe in this sense they are evil and disastrous to America's future. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

05 Dec 22 9.39am

I'm not going to comment on WE's fantasies here.

However, I will make the observation that social media companies have far too much power and are used to interfere in elections.

Of course they are.....whatever isn't regulated will be abused by the powerful.

It doesn't matter who it is, Democrat or Republican, they will do whatever they can get away with to have power. Those who deny this are just playing political tribalism.

I think Musk is a good guy. I also think Jack Dorsey is a good guy who got railroaded by activists. Both of them are more to the left of me but I recognise honesty and good intent when I see it.

What Musk is trying to do is pull America back towards its first amendment, which has been significantly abused by social media.

I believe the forces ranged against him are powerful and malignant. I'm secular, so it's rare for me to talk in terms of evil, but I believe in this sense they are evil and disastrous to America's future.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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HKOwen Hong Kong 05 Dec 22 11.51pm
"Do we know how many stories the MSM haven't run on Trump because they cannot be confirmed and they fear being sued? " We are really off in Wibble Land here. In other words, how many untrue stories have MSM not run because they are untrue. No sign of Biden Inc suing the New York Post btw Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 05 Dec 22 11.51pm

"Do we know how many stories the MSM haven't run on Trump because they cannot be confirmed and they fear being sued? "

We are really off in Wibble Land here.

In other words, how many untrue stories have MSM not run because they are untrue.

No sign of Biden Inc suing the New York Post btw

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Dec 22 12.03am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I'm not going to comment on WE's fantasies here. However, I will make the observation that social media companies have far too much power and are used to interfere in elections. Of course they are.....whatever isn't regulated will be abused by the powerful. It doesn't matter who it is, Democrat or Republican, they will do whatever they can get away with to have power. Those who deny this are just playing political tribalism. I think Musk is a good guy. I also think Jack Dorsey is a good guy who got railroaded by activists. Both of them are more to the left of me but I recognise honesty and good intent when I see it. What Musk is trying to do is pull America back towards its first amendment, which has been significantly abused by social media. I believe the forces ranged against him are powerful and malignant. I'm secular, so it's rare for me to talk in terms of evil, but I believe in this sense they are evil and disastrous to America's future. There are no fantasies in my comment. Much is factual. Some is the opinion of those who know much more than any posting here. Social media companies are private businesses who have the absolute right to decide what can, or cannot appear on their platform, provided it remains lawful. If our legislators believe that they need to exercise more moderation I would agree with them. They cannot though impose less. That decision is not for government to make. Musk has been treated with considerable scorn over his claim that he is trying to re-assert the First Amendment, which doesn't apply to what Twitter did with the laptop story. You can argue it was wrong, but not that it contravened the First Amendment. Musk is making a fool of himself. He can now set whatever standards he likes for Twitter. It's his business. It wasn't when those decisions were taken. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 06 Dec 22 12.03am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I'm not going to comment on WE's fantasies here.

However, I will make the observation that social media companies have far too much power and are used to interfere in elections.

Of course they are.....whatever isn't regulated will be abused by the powerful.

It doesn't matter who it is, Democrat or Republican, they will do whatever they can get away with to have power. Those who deny this are just playing political tribalism.

I think Musk is a good guy. I also think Jack Dorsey is a good guy who got railroaded by activists. Both of them are more to the left of me but I recognise honesty and good intent when I see it.

What Musk is trying to do is pull America back towards its first amendment, which has been significantly abused by social media.

There are no fantasies in my comment. Much is factual. Some is the opinion of those who know much more than any posting here.

Social media companies are private businesses who have the absolute right to decide what can, or cannot appear on their platform, provided it remains lawful.

If our legislators believe that they need to exercise more moderation I would agree with them. They cannot though impose less. That decision is not for government to make.

Musk has been treated with considerable scorn over his claim that he is trying to re-assert the First Amendment, which doesn't apply to what Twitter did with the laptop story. You can argue it was wrong, but not that it contravened the First Amendment. Musk is making a fool of himself. He can now set whatever standards he likes for Twitter. It's his business. It wasn't when those decisions were taken.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 06 Dec 22 12.09am
I think when Musk is made aware that WE thinks he is making a fool of himself we will see a significant shift in his behaviour. Peter Kay's return to stand up second behind WE posts in things that make you laugh out loud. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 06 Dec 22 12.09am

I think when Musk is made aware that WE thinks he is making a fool of himself we will see a significant shift in his behaviour.

Peter Kay's return to stand up second behind WE posts in things that make you laugh out loud.

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Stirlingsays 06 Dec 22 4.56am
Originally posted by HKOwen I think when Musk is made aware that WE thinks he is making a fool of himself we will see a significant shift in his behaviour. Peter Kay's return to stand up second behind WE posts in things that make you laugh out loud. Musk really should take notice of WE and adjust his moral compass, doesn't he understand that he's single handedly ending slavery out here. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

06 Dec 22 4.56am

Originally posted by HKOwen

I think when Musk is made aware that WE thinks he is making a fool of himself we will see a significant shift in his behaviour.

Peter Kay's return to stand up second behind WE posts in things that make you laugh out loud.

Musk really should take notice of WE and adjust his moral compass, doesn't he understand that he's single handedly ending slavery out here.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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HKOwen Hong Kong 06 Dec 22 7.59am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Musk really should take notice of WE and adjust his moral compass, doesn't he understand that he's single handedly ending slavery out here. Waiting to hear his adventures of thwarting ivory poachers Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 06 Dec 22 7.59am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Musk really should take notice of WE and adjust his moral compass, doesn't he understand that he's single handedly ending slavery out here.

Waiting to hear his adventures of thwarting ivory poachers

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Badger11 Beckenham 06 Dec 22 8.08am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Do we know how many stories the MSM haven't run on Trump because they cannot be confirmed and they fear being sued? The Steele report exists. That isn't in doubt. It reports rumours, which Steele expresses no certainty about but suggests that he has a high degree of confidence that many are true, given his experience and contacts. I heard him repeat that confidence only last week, when asked pretty much the same question that you do. He doesn't know if a video tape of the alleged event still exists, but appears sure that it did at one time. The origins of the Steele report lie in a commission given to Steele by Republican "never-Trumper" conservatives. It was then taken up by the DNC when Trump became the GOP candidate as opposition research. Steele is a convincing witness. He doesn't appear to have any political motives at all. Hearing the way he had to disappear into hiding, with his family, in the middle of the night when he was told the story was being published by BuzzFeed was chilling. You don't do that unless you have a good reason to. The US intelligence agencies had, and still have, their own reports on Trump which largely confirm the Steele report. They know, but knowing and proving are different beasts. Trump understands the value of plausible deniability as well as any mob boss. He keeps things at arms length and lets the next level take the rap, and then pardons them. Obama was briefed. I expect Biden has been too. That Russia wanted Trump in the WH and helped him get there is beyond any doubt. How much Trump actively participated with them, and what part of that can be proved is all that remains in doubt. From Wikipedia regarding the convincing witness Steele the Inspector General's conclusion. "One of the report's findings related to conflicting accounts of sourced content in the dossier. When one of Steele's sources was later interviewed by the FBI about the allegations sourced to them, they gave accounts which conflicted with Steele's renderings in the dossier. They indicated that Steele "misstated or exaggerated" the source's statements.[52][114] The IG found it difficult to discern the causes for the discrepancies between some dossier allegations and explanations later provided to the FBI by the sources of those allegations. The IG attributed the discrepancies to three possible factors: miscommunication between Steele and the sources, "exaggerations or misrepresentations" by Steele, or misrepresentations by the sources when questioned by the FBI" Steele was a paid informant to the FBI but admitted that he considered his client was not them but the people who asked him to commission the report e.g. Hilary Clinton. In short much of what Steele has said is conjecture certainly the more salacious stuff he is not a reliable witness as he was paid and therefore had a financial incentive to dig up these allegations. He maybe telling the truth I have no idea however he is most certainly tainted as a witness but the press lapped it up. I hear they are going to prosecute Trump any day now any day. Edited by Badger11 (06 Dec 2022 8.12am) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 06 Dec 22 8.08am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That Russia wanted Trump in the WH and helped him get there is beyond any doubt. How much Trump actively participated with them, and what part of that can be proved is all that remains in doubt.

From Wikipedia regarding the convincing witness Steele the Inspector General's conclusion.

"One of the report's findings related to conflicting accounts of sourced content in the dossier. When one of Steele's sources was later interviewed by the FBI about the allegations sourced to them, they gave accounts which conflicted with Steele's renderings in the dossier. They indicated that Steele "misstated or exaggerated" the source's statements.[52][114]

The IG found it difficult to discern the causes for the discrepancies between some dossier allegations and explanations later provided to the FBI by the sources of those allegations. The IG attributed the discrepancies to three possible factors: miscommunication between Steele and the sources, "exaggerations or misrepresentations" by Steele, or misrepresentations by the sources when questioned by the FBI"

Steele was a paid informant to the FBI but admitted that he considered his client was not them but the people who asked him to commission the report e.g. Hilary Clinton.

In short much of what Steele has said is conjecture certainly the more salacious stuff he is not a reliable witness as he was paid and therefore had a financial incentive to dig up these allegations. He maybe telling the truth I have no idea however he is most certainly tainted as a witness but the press lapped it up.

I hear they are going to prosecute Trump any day now any day.

Edited by Badger11 (06 Dec 2022 8.12am)

One more point

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HKOwen Hong Kong 06 Dec 22 8.20am
Steele is a convincing witness if you have a bias and it suits your narrative......... Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 06 Dec 22 8.20am

Steele is a convincing witness if you have a bias and it suits your narrative.........

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Stirlingsays 06 Dec 22 8.23am
Originally posted by Badger11 From Wikipedia regarding the convincing witness Steele the Inspector General's conclusion. "One of the report's findings related to conflicting accounts of sourced content in the dossier. When one of Steele's sources was later interviewed by the FBI about the allegations sourced to them, they gave accounts which conflicted with Steele's renderings in the dossier. They indicated that Steele "misstated or exaggerated" the source's statements.[52][114] The IG found it difficult to discern the causes for the discrepancies between some dossier allegations and explanations later provided to the FBI by the sources of those allegations. The IG attributed the discrepancies to three possible factors: miscommunication between Steele and the sources, "exaggerations or misrepresentations" by Steele, or misrepresentations by the sources when questioned by the FBI" Steele was a paid informant to the FBI but admitted that he considered his client was not them but the people who asked him to commission the report e.g. Hilary Clinton. In short much of what Steele has said is conjecture certainly the more salacious stuff he is not a reliable witness as he was paid and therefore had a financial incentive to dig up these allegations. He maybe telling the truth I have no idea however he is most certainly tainted as a witness but the press lapped it up. I hear they are going to prosecute Trump any day now any day. Edited by Badger11 (06 Dec 2022 8.12am) I'm sure we are all shocked. Surely, we all assume that WE's opinions on all these matters are purely a reasonable and balanced reflection of the truth. The very idea that he could be looking at these events from a one eyed perspective is a very painful one that I simply won't countenance. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

06 Dec 22 8.23am

Originally posted by Badger11

From Wikipedia regarding the convincing witness Steele the Inspector General's conclusion.

Steele was a paid informant to the FBI but admitted that he considered his client was not them but the people who asked him to commission the report e.g. Hilary Clinton.

I hear they are going to prosecute Trump any day now any day.

Edited by Badger11 (06 Dec 2022 8.12am)

I'm sure we are all shocked.

Surely, we all assume that WE's opinions on all these matters are purely a reasonable and balanced reflection of the truth. The very idea that he could be looking at these events from a one eyed perspective is a very painful one that I simply won't countenance.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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