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April 25 2024 10.08pm

Does the Club have a clear strategy?

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View Elwissthebest's Profile Elwissthebest Flag Marlborough 02 Feb 21 8.39pm Send a Private Message to Elwissthebest Add Elwissthebest as a friend

Interesting topic. Thank you for it. You're almost as old as I am (first Palace match 1965).
There has been much talk recently around the issue of whether CPFC is doing as well as it could. On the one hand, you have varieties of 'We could still be stuck in Third Division South.' The most recent iteration of this is; 'Be Careful What You Wish For'. Such arguments play out as varieties of: 'Compared with where we've come from, we've done really well.' Don't rock the boat, or we'll be back in the brown stuff.' Curiously, posters in this camp tend to regard people who suggest things could be better still as pessimists: 'you're always moaning about something...' The point of course is exactly the opposite: that the 'moaners' are actually the optimists, because they (we) dare to suggest that it is possible to 'Believe in Better' to quote the nauseating jingle.
Palace is unlikely to be a top ten Premiership club because it doesn't have the economic power to get there and stay there. At the end of the season, you are looking by and large at a list from of economic power. You know that Liverpool, the two Manchesters, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs will be there. Leicester is an economic over-achiever, but it's got a good manager and is excellent at recruitment and trading. Newcastle, in terms of the home gate, should really be in the top ten although it is a mis-managed entity. With Ancelloti, Everton is probably top ten and I think under Moyes and a Board that is prepared to spend (and how!) so is West Ham. Southampton (no particular economic recommendation) for next best? Villa?
Of course, in terms of economic potential, the likes of former European Cup winner, Nottingham Forest, might be there too. But that's another story.
Judged in this context, Palace is indeed doing well to have survived seven consecutive seasons in the top flight: unprecedented for us. The point about the south London hinterland and a 35,000 stadium offers hope. Actually, 35,000 isn't enough for top ten status, but if we committed to a policy of recruitment to the first team from the Academy, then that is a real outlier. This, under the present managerial regime is unlikely. Wan-Bissaka and Mitchell excepted, they just don't come through, not least because getting to 38 points is such an effort every season, there is never time to 'blood' them.
So maybe we just settle for season after season of surviving in the Premiership. The Chairman saved the club in 2010 so criticism of him is in bad taste, but I do think of him as someone who is happy with 38 points per year. He should probably sell the club on if he can find a buyer. That said, he's Palace through and through and there's absolutely no guarantee that could be said of whoever might come in.
So: could we be doing better? Yes and no. For what it's worth, I'd rather watch really exciting football in the Championship played by youngsters who have come through our ranks than plod on with this turgid survivalism. For me, the 1978-9 season will always be the yardstick. Of course, that came unstuck. But the objections to that view are obvious. Best of all: exciting football in the Premiership. That just isn't going to happen under the present regime as we have opted for 'Safety First'. It's by no means inevitable that that will work.

 

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View Knightstar's Profile Knightstar Flag Guildford 03 Feb 21 8.14am Send a Private Message to Knightstar Add Knightstar as a friend

Thanks You make some good points and I agree with a lot of what you say. One area of difference though is that I do not wish us to be back in the Championship under any circumstances. If we are to progress as I imagine we would all like to see, we need to be in the Premier League. You also make a good case explaining the major challenge we face in becoming an established top ten Premier League side, which as you rightly say is strongly linked to economic success. That is why I believe we desperately need inward investment, ideally from new owners. The Academy is indeed a potential outlier and really could help us to bridge that economic gap but again you are right to highlight the problem we have with the current management. I have been impressed with a lot of what Roy has done for us but he clearly can't go on for a lot longer and nor should he. We need a new, younger manager who will help to take us forward and that must be one of Steve Parish's top priorities right now. So let's hope we see action on this over the coming months.

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 03 Feb 21 10.03am Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by Knightstar

Thanks You make some good points and I agree with a lot of what you say. One area of difference though is that I do not wish us to be back in the Championship under any circumstances. If we are to progress as I imagine we would all like to see, we need to be in the Premier League. You also make a good case explaining the major challenge we face in becoming an established top ten Premier League side, which as you rightly say is strongly linked to economic success. That is why I believe we desperately need inward investment, ideally from new owners. The Academy is indeed a potential outlier and really could help us to bridge that economic gap but again you are right to highlight the problem we have with the current management. I have been impressed with a lot of what Roy has done for us but he clearly can't go on for a lot longer and nor should he. We need a new, younger manager who will help to take us forward and that must be one of Steve Parish's top priorities right now. So let's hope we see action on this over the coming months.


I suspect that won't be the case. Few PL managers stay long. They either get sacked or move to pastures new.
- 10 of the current PL managers have been in post LESS than 2 years.
- Hodgson's tenure at Palace makes him the 6th longest serving manager at the current club (behind Dyche, Klopp, Wilder, Guardiola and Espirito Santo).
- When asked about a new contract last night, Hodgson, with a smile on his face, said he wasn't bothered about that, which might mean he's not fussed whether he gets a new contract or not, or that he's been assured that a contract extension will be available once the club feel we're safe. The latter seems more likely to me given Hodgson has also said in recent times that he wants to carry on as long as he can.

I expect he'll still be here next season.

 

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View Knightstar's Profile Knightstar Flag Guildford 03 Feb 21 2.06pm Send a Private Message to Knightstar Add Knightstar as a friend

Well if you are right it will be interesting to see how we progress on rebuilding the team because it has to be overhauled. We clearly need to get rid of some of those whose contracts are about to expire eg Wickham, Sakho, Benteke plus two or three others and that means we need to bring in younger replacements. I hope Roy works with Steve and Dougie and they all get on the same wavelength. Although I'd much rather see a new manager at the helm.

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 03 Feb 21 2.21pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by doombear


I suspect that won't be the case. Few PL managers stay long. They either get sacked or move to pastures new.
- 10 of the current PL managers have been in post LESS than 2 years.
- Hodgson's tenure at Palace makes him the 6th longest serving manager at the current club (behind Dyche, Klopp, Wilder, Guardiola and Espirito Santo).
- When asked about a new contract last night, Hodgson, with a smile on his face, said he wasn't bothered about that, which might mean he's not fussed whether he gets a new contract or not, or that he's been assured that a contract extension will be available once the club feel we're safe. The latter seems more likely to me given Hodgson has also said in recent times that he wants to carry on as long as he can.

I expect he'll still be here next season.

Should we avoid the dreaded drop, Mr Hodgson will have ensured our survival for 4 seasons on a limited spend.

Should by some chance the club decides to move in a different direction against his wishes,there will an array of people outside our club with whom I am in contact,who will be totally dumbfounded by the decision.

Edited by Willo (03 Feb 2021 2.24pm)

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 03 Feb 21 2.28pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by Knightstar

Well if you are right it will be interesting to see how we progress on rebuilding the team because it has to be overhauled. We clearly need to get rid of some of those whose contracts are about to expire eg Wickham, Sakho, Benteke plus two or three others and that means we need to bring in younger replacements. I hope Roy works with Steve and Dougie and they all get on the same wavelength. Although I'd much rather see a new manager at the helm.


Probably not as quickly as we fans would like. It's the finances issue. I expect most of those whose contracts expire in the summer will get extension offers. Hopefully, at least Wickham and Sakho will depart. I suspect Hennessey will go now we've got both Guaita and Butland on longer deals. Whether or not Benteke goes may well depend on how Mateta shapes up (I expect him to feature significantly soon). There is then the question of how those we've loaned out do during the rest of the season and whether any of them will have done well enough to be considered as possible first team players who will do more than sit on the bench next year). Some will need more development, but Woods, Pierrick and Kirby might be nearly ready when they return. As I write I see Jairo 's contract has been extended till 2024.

 

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jeeagles Flag 03 Feb 21 2.31pm

The strategy has always been there. It just gets harder to implement the higher up you go.

2011) Pull a squad of players together. Survive in the Championship.
2012 to 2013) Start building around youth, see if we can get some decent players on the cheap. End up with surprise promotions.
2014 to 2015) See if we can survive a couple of years in the premiership without breaking the bank.
2015 to 2017) Sign a few marquee players to signal the intent of wanting more than just survival.
2018 to 2020) Pad out the rest of the squad with experienced premiership players. Invest in infrastructure.
2021) Start to supplement the experienced players with younger ones to try and look to break into the top 10 in the next few years.

We've also got a targeted, low turnover approach to transfers.

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 03 Feb 21 2.37pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

The strategy has always been there. It just gets harder to implement the higher up you go.

2011) Pull a squad of players together. Survive in the Championship.
2012 to 2013) Start building around youth, see if we can get some decent players on the cheap. End up with surprise promotions.
2014 to 2015) See if we can survive a couple of years in the premiership without breaking the bank.
2015 to 2017) Sign a few marquee players to signal the intent of wanting more than just survival.
2018 to 2020) Pad out the rest of the squad with experienced premiership players. Invest in infrastructure.
2021) Start to supplement the experienced players with younger ones to try and look to break into the top 10 in the next few years.

We've also got a targeted, low turnover approach to transfers.


Sounds about right to me.

 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 03 Feb 21 2.58pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

The strategy has always been there. It just gets harder to implement the higher up you go.

2011) Pull a squad of players together. Survive in the Championship.
2012 to 2013) Start building around youth, see if we can get some decent players on the cheap. End up with surprise promotions.
2014 to 2015) See if we can survive a couple of years in the premiership without breaking the bank.
2015 to 2017) Sign a few marquee players to signal the intent of wanting more than just survival.
2018 to 2020) Pad out the rest of the squad with experienced premiership players. Invest in infrastructure.
2021) Start to supplement the experienced players with younger ones to try and look to break into the top 10 in the next few years.

We've also got a targeted, low turnover approach to transfers.

You forgot one thing - employ dull but safe manager to hold the fort while transformation takes place

 

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View Knightstar's Profile Knightstar Flag Guildford 10 Feb 21 8.01am Send a Private Message to Knightstar Add Knightstar as a friend

Well I think it's clear that Parish must act urgently on appointing a new, younger manager who will oversee the rebuilding of the squad. I think Roy can finish the season but a new manager needs to be lined up immediately and discussions about squad replacements should begin so we can hit the ground running during the summer window. This must be Parish's top priority right now.

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 10 Feb 21 10.28am Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by Knightstar

Well I think it's clear that Parish must act urgently on appointing a new, younger manager who will oversee the rebuilding of the squad. I think Roy can finish the season but a new manager needs to be lined up immediately and discussions about squad replacements should begin so we can hit the ground running during the summer window. This must be Parish's top priority right now.


Fine, but once again, I ask, where's the money coming from? I don't see the Americans putting up any more than the bare minimum to keep us in the PL.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 10 Feb 21 10.36am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by doombear


Fine, but once again, I ask, where's the money coming from? I don't see the Americans putting up any more than the bare minimum to keep us in the PL.

Valid point we don't know what the Americans have told Parish. It's even possible that they have said they wont fund the new stadium and so Parish is not pushing Sainsbury or the other issues too hard for that reason.

 


One more point

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